we'll go ahead and get started and welcome to our work session tonight so
we're starting our recording now and at this time we'll recognize our
administrative team Trevor or B ill or whoever once get started and
We will start with a little Powerpoint presentation if I can get the computer to cooperate
Which I hope I can
I'm not comfortable with this computer I'm very comfortable with my Mac
Go up and hit slide show there it is all
right very good so mr. chairman members of the board I would like to present to
you a plan that encompasses many of our facility needs it involves a facility
that provides support to our teachers it had to have a name that was encompassing
of all the things we intend this facility to do and I believe it best to
call it educational support center dr. Nolte and others had input on this name
certainly open to suggestions you may have I had to start somewhere so it's
preliminary name the goal of this facility is to create a 21st century
training and support center for our amazing teachers they have done
historically a fantastic job and we would really just like to have a
first-class 21st century facility to do professional development and have
meetings in and various other activities
in looking at this slide what I've prepared for you is looking at all the
existing properties tried my best to create a graphic that would show
movement among four properties I'll start at the top with former Hazelwood
or old Hazelwood school or Hazelwood elementary or Hazelwood Conference
Center has many many names and it currently in that property are 14 EC
support staff offices and a large training room the ALC is also also there but I
did not include it in this because we're going to talk about it later you what
I've tried to do is if you look at the arrows that shows what's going to be
moving toward this educational support center next we have central Haywood high
school and one of the things that we would hope to move to this educational
support Center would be the boardroom which would also double as a large
training facility and our ITC we would want to move the ITC from there to this
educational support center in looking at the Crabtree property or old Crabtree
school child nutrition is currently housed there just some rough numbers
there it's about six thousand dollars additional a month for Internet service
or access out there which is very pricey
so again we would want to move child nutrition to the educational support
center then looking at central office our current building the old hospital
again has many names we would like to move the offices we have a training and
we have training and meeting rooms there as well as room for record storage many
historical records transcripts that we would need space for and again that
would move to the educational support center all combined if you look at the
bottom there you would have training rooms board room the ITC child nutrition
and offices both for central office the current central office staff as well as
EC support staff Human Resources all types of support since him hence the
name educational support center
so the next slides will be broken down by facility and what's happening at
those facilities and the first we'll start with central Haywood High School so the
first thing we would want to do or what I would propose is converting the
current board room this room which was formerly a gym converting it back to a
gym for central Haywood high school that creates a savings and helps us avoid
building back in the old footprint of the former Clyde gym which was in the
floodplain it also places the gym on the same campus on the same side of the road
where it's more readily accessible to central Haywood high school students and
as you'll see here in just a minute the Adult Learning Center students as
well so we would also move the ITC to the educational support center as named
earlier so that vacates the top floor and it also vacates this building that
move would facilitate moving the ALC to the vacated ITC space here at central
Haywood high school next we would move to training rooms the boardroom to the
educational support center in total any questions on that I know that's a lot of
swapping and moving but I wanted to
basically sort of concepts but have you have you sort of studied how many
training rooms like breakout rooms you might need in this new yes like smaller
rooms like different subcommittees and stuff to meet things like that that'll
be for simplicity of the the presentation it's just called training
rooms but we are aware we have one small training room we know that this would be
a medium-sized training room and then the training
room at Hazelwood is considered a large training room and increase those size
sizes because as we all know build it bigger than you think you'll need
because you'll end up needing it one of the things we talked about is we we have
probably the square footage that we need for training it's just all over
everywhere so if we made sure that we maintain a space like we have at the old
Hazelwood school which could double as a board room you know how our board
meetings get really congested and then we maintain these two training rooms and
then the training rooms we have upstairs at the central office if we can maintain
about that same amount of space than we think we'll be okay and people will go
to one place you know and they'll know where it is and so that's some of the
conversation that we had in terms of just trying to be you know this could be
costly but just trying to be efficient and you know not build in
floodplain get out of this building that cost a lot get out of that building that
cost like are we allowed to build back over there this raising the gym upper
that is a possibility course cost spiral upwards very expensive once you go back
and I have rough numbers again I'm not comfortable yet releasing numbers but I
can tell you that converting this would be a huge savings and you'll see square
footage requirements later and and just what you ask is taken into consideration
when we talk about those square footage requirements thank you can the ALC be
moved without tech support being moved they wouldn't be space it's not enough
suppose it wouldn't be space look okay and really you know tech support
probably does not need to be in this building over here because of the
possibility of flooding that we had because if you know they have to monitor
the river and yeah if it does look like it's gonna flood they have to move you
know servers and different things so it'd be better if it was sort of away
from the river I wouldn't feel like that's correct that's correct
and there's a space issue I mean if this is a gym which we believe it should be
of course the final plan is yours we want you to take this and tell us what
to do with it that we've missed but if you make this the gym which they
desperately need and you don't have to build it up then central Haywood I mean
the Learning Center would take up a almost all of the upstairs next door you
central Haywood could probably have a class or two upstairs or office space
upstairs I don't know that we can leave IT there
are you talking about this whole building becoming
the gym no sir just just this part
because the current classrooms would need to remain we already have a
shortage that's not accounted for at this time we lost shop classes in the
gym and we actually need those need these additional spaces for classrooms
as well as the additional classrooms vacated in the upper level of central
Haywood High School you get the room behind you there and this you almost
have you been in here when it was a gym you know it goes way up you know so you
you probably would have pretty good distance you wouldn't be playing in ball
games in here not official games but you'd have plenty of room for physical
education
it's pretty close it would be pretty close be big
If you renovate this building you are not going to run into flood plain issues
with the renovation are we since we are leaving part of it intact
we will need to double-check
it's our best understanding now that we can remodel what we have as long as it's
occupied you know and so I think as long as we're not you know closing it down
for a period of months if we just come in and remodel we'll have to double
check that one other question since we're talking about this property since
you did say the classroom size or the classrooms may be a little bit limited
is there a possibility of putting some portable classrooms over on where the
gym is since they would be up well the good news about that is if you do need
to add on or create additional space you can do it on this side of the river okay
because parking is not a necessity with the boardroom
if the boardroom is moved to the new educational Support Center and you know
ITC's not here you basically just have central Heywood with a Learning Center
that staff those there are two staffs one is instructional and one is more
wraparound job force workforce people the the traffic here's a lot less okay I
advance to the next property which is Crabtree property and again for
simplicity sake it you know it simply says move child nutrition to educational
Support Center it would also move to eliminate those internet costs the
repair and maintenance of an old property and they does in a metal
building and that takes into account freezer and dry storage and all the
things that are needed the square footage numbers that you see later
taking that into account I've got it breaking broken down item by item any
questions on that property that may be the simplest one we have we couldn't
okay next we have former Hazelwood elementary Hazelwood Conference Center
the the plan for that property and again it's my understanding that the county
may have some interest in that property to put to full use for folkmoot I do
not want to speak for the county any more than I would want to speak for you
but that I have heard that from good sources from time to time it seems to be
a consistent message and we what I would propose to you for consideration is
moving the ALC to central Haywood High School as we just finished discussing
moving the large training room that's at the end of Hazelwood Conference Center
to the educational support center and then moving 14 EC support staff to the
educational support center currently in the old day care old elementary again we
have lots of names for these facilities but most commonly known as the daycare
we have 14 staff members in that building currently and just so you know
what that consists of you're looking at occupational therapists physical
therapists speech language specialists all of all of the support specialists
for our kids are currently housed in the daycare on that property so they we
would move them as well to the educational support center they we would
in all likelihood not need 14 offices a lot of those people are in and out a lot
they go to three or four or five schools serve students you could probably put
you know couples speech-language people in an office occupational physical
therapists kind of people who would be coming in and out
sharing an office will wouldn't take 14 offices but those people do need a home base and
putting them at school sites is not as easy as it was because we're tighter
with class size reductions especially at at the elementary schools the
classes are smaller and so we need more rooms just to stay under the class size
law this probably not the place to say this my memory is not real good any more
so I am going to say it now you know initially what we talked about so far
having a centralized location that is cohesive not only does it provide for
a cohesive but collaboration that can occur oh my and everybody
being together it's got to
be a huge value to the system overall Plus shared resources yes sir
I've called Kim four times today we take paper out of our basement and send it
down to the old daycare you know just little things like that which requires a
person and personnel hours to haul it down there and gas to haul it down there
we also do that for child nutrition or have in the past I forgot about that I
think I did make them buy their paper this year yes dr. nolte made them
purchase it but it has been done in the past I have a quick question
it might be something we talk in detail later but this if we move ALC
to central we're gonna maintain 2 complete staffs no no I don't think we'll need
them I think I think most of the folks at the Learning Center that would come
from there you know they have a lot of part-time staff and we would still need
that component one of the reasons we have that center because kids can't do
it in a 90 minute block with you know 10 or 12 kids around them but I think we
need fewer part-time staff I don't think over time that we would
need that director we might initially phase out kind of thing we would need
someone to manage the program especially all the grants around job skills and and
money for them you know day care for them if they're learning to work so I
think you cut your administrative costs down there if you count the Social Work
position is an administrative position it really is doing the job work stuff we
cut it in half and then you instead of having three full-time equivalents or
six half-time people down there you probably end up with probably a maximum
of two full-time which is probably four halves a history a math the science a
English language arts and then there they're working with those kids who are
doing credit recovery on a course that they took but didn't pass or we have a
kid blow in here from another state and we want to graduate them and they need
two credits but we're just going to try to get those online for them and those
those part times staff so you do save some staff money probably within 18
months maybe faster 18 months I'd say a little more a little less
well is kyle retiring this year well he's talked about that and then you
know I anytime somebody asked me about somebody retiring I'm like you know when
I see the paper then it's done and until then it's talked he has talked to me
about that he has served us well certainly and brought us a lot of
resources and we've graduated a lot of kids so a lot of students so I'm not
sure about his timetable but we you know we had he and I have had that
conversation
any more questions about former Hazelwood elementary alright moving to
the next slide so the next couple slides just highlights some of the many
advantages of moving forward with an educational support center provides for
integrated instructional support services creates needed training space
for teachers and staff maintain central elementary for a potential growth and
student population eliminates the need to replace the
central Haywood high school gym allows us to completely vacate former Hazelwood
Crabtree property and current central office provides office space for current
central office and EC support staff
reduces maintenance repairs and replacement costs provides a integrated
hub for training meetings and on-site instructional technology support remove
reduces the amount of break down and set up time for trainings in meeting reduces
the amount of travel on the part of teachers trainers and support staff
streamlines scheduling and allows for on-site on-site food preparation serves
as a recruitment tool for teachers by offering a 21st century training
facility that's just one little example which is not a big deal but over time
it's it's a big deal every time we have a work session or a board meeting people
leave the central office and they come down to here and they get ready for that
meeting you know the tree goes up the tree comes down the you know the
nameplates come out you know all those things all those things happen school
food service brings in food sometimes from next door but sometimes I think the
sandwiches tonight came from Waynesville middle so if school food service is
right there with you there are a ton a little I won't call them intangibles
because you can put your hands on but there
of little things that really add to efficiency and again that most of that
travel is from Waynesville to Clyde and back and we certainly don't want folks
who are providing that food hanging around we'd like for them to go back and
get back to work so that means two trips most times the setup back to work leave
come the break down back to work that adds up over time I'm not just here for
Hazelwood when you have meetings yes sir yes absolutely yes sir yes sir
and it is it is confusing I mean you would never want to make a move of this
size for the simple purpose of making it less confusing but you know when we have
our staff development days trying to describe where everyone's going you
know it's its former Hazelwood well it's old Hazelwood school no it's the
Hazelwood conference center is that the one in Clyde you know it gets confused I
have to do a longitude latitude once you get them directed
to the right place they walk into a substandard place to train and that's
some times dr. Rogers that's the big thing
being able you know our teachers and staff work extremely hard and we would
love to have 21st century schools brand-new with all the bells and
whistles everywhere but an educational Support Center is something that every
teacher can benefit and have a 21st century place to train and visit and for
support and help I just I feel like it's a good thing for our teachers and staff
so this slide right here educational support center here are the
specifications so it would include training rooms again I didn't break
those out into you know large small medium sized but it does take into
account all of our current training space so training rooms ITC
child nutrition and support staff we would need five acres of usable land in
it we would have training or meeting space in the equivalent approximately
9,000 square feet ITC office lab technology and storage
which is what they currently have of 10,000 square feet and again all of this
is to facilitate instructional support staff space so we need eight thousand
750 square feet support staff it can be anything from HR
to finance to PTs OTs I speak about them on down just a little more specifically
vocational vocational elementary secondary elementary secondary very good
and then the next item child nutrition office space a thousand square feet
they're dry storage cooler and freezer comes in at 9,000 square feet and then
ec support staff space about 5000 square feet which is about what they're
occupied now at the old daycare in total space needed is 42,750 square feet
so 5 acres of land and 42,750 square feet see the pencils going up there
well say $200 a square foot i was justseeing total probably estimated
that two and a quarter 2.25 about nine million you get varied
you get varying dollar amounts sometimes more sometimes less again I didn't
include financial numbers well that's hard to determine until you really know
what kind of structure you're gonna build there's a what kind of facade
it's gonna be on and what's going to look like Trevor's got saying I'm sorry
I'm bad to interrupt Trevor's got some information that I think might be helpful in
explaining that that's a big old number even if it's less than that yeah but if
we don't do it we can show some bigger numbers over time and over time you're
talking about doing away with a lot of money that's so we talk about doing that
where the old hospital is you've got to decide
that as a board but there's something about we have to keep the front of the
building maybe not it depends on whether the tax credit stuffs there you know I
think I think the land is the next well I think once you all buy the concept and
we get a little bit of a nod from commissioners on what you all were
thinking about you know and you adjust it the way you want it and I think that
you all start talking about where does it sit I got a question a few a few
months ago we have a situation what we thought was gonna have to replace gas
tanks at the bus garage yeah we don't and I know we don't we had also
considered that when this thing all got together that whether needed it now or
later that the buses bus garage might be on the same campus he's got it let's go
if you'll look up he's got educational support center other considerations in
case you want it okay I'm sorry I'm you know you're no you're good you're on the
same page okay yes for maintenance
and transportation you would need six acres of usable land for maintenance you
need fifteen thousand square feet for the lawnmower
shop you would need 4,500 square feet and for the welding and carpentry shop
five thousand square feet for transportation you would also need
15,000 square feet for a total space needed of thirty-nine thousand five
hundred square feet and I broke it out that way I didn't you know I never want
to assume what you would want to do so I separated the two you can go with the
one you can add this and so I put this as a separate consideration so that the
one is five and this is six acres who would need eleven if we did it all
together of usable land yes but if you wanted to consider the reason that we
need to move but I know we talked about the bus shop but well um eventually you do
get them on that methane field up if that thing fails and that's not you know
we don't know about that's not our piece of property and we know they're working
on it you know if it fails where we would have to move we would certainly be
more efficient if we moved so I think you know you'd be at the mercy of how
much land you could get and how much money you had and what you really felt
like in talking to the county about how they feel about the life expectancy of
the landfill and and whether or not it's contained we just bought ten acres not
sure that's I'm not I'm not sure it all fit it's eleven acres usable of
usable land we have we got five acres of usable land my two cents on that is
is I think that's the did you figure out what this is the total ball of wax and
you add a little bit and then you look for an I hate to say mess up some good
farmland or whatever you look for that spot and after you look for that
spot and that includes infrastructure like roads possibly gas probably
possibly you know utilities and so forth
being in an accessible location and then when you purchase that property you
start as things you drop you get the big design and then you build as you can
until you get it completed if it's 20 if it's 20 years down the road before the
bus garage moves or whatever but you need to you need to if you don't start
with 11 acres yeah if you don't have the 11 or 12 or 15 acres or whatever if
you find the right like I say I hate to see some good farmland get messed up but
if you found the right farm or whatever if the right price I just think you're
not doing you're not looking forward enough and making the right decision
unless you make sure you've got enough room to make sure it happens it happens
efficiently and then as you can pay for it you move in their lands there our
current footprint the property that we're on currently at old hospital
what's that property size look like I'd be afraid to say I've heard some number
but I don't have an official number on that
Joe and I both have looked at it it a building to accommodate the first half
of this that being child nutrition that being ITC that being support staff that
been offices it will a comment that land will accommodate all of those things
yeah because I've got a rough guess I mean what the acreage is a yeah I'll
give you a guest just thinking about my farm and I've got a six acre and hay
feeling in a nine-acre hay field and you know I look at them I think you could
get it all on there I'm not sure I would want to try to do that if we're trying
to save the front part of that old building I think you're I think you've
got the 11 I don't know that you've got a lot more than that because I think
you'll be pretty tight it be tight that be tight and be expensive
tearing all that down the county already knows that cost
million dollars eight hundred thousand apparently that's a number we can get you
we can go on i don't you know the county website and we can get that acreage number
Brandon told us that the front of that building
was a historical site well and my understanding you know the only time
having a historical building benefit to you is in the way of tax credits well
yeah but to get those tax credits and I've done this with a home of my own you
have to return it to the original form that means no carpets that were not
originally in the in the facility that means tearing out the front entranceway
to the current old hospital they're made into a 1920 hospital when you're
finished you will have a 1920 hospital according to Brandon we have to keep it there
though right there's not I am always subject to
mistakes or misinformation but I'm not aware that it has to be kept well that's good
tire it down I thought he was saying that what you had to keep it it's
leaning on the back of the building they announced there at the meeting that we
went to to finalize the funds for the Tuscola addition I'm not suggesting that
we do this yeah but if we were to have the same group come down and look at our
curren central office space that looked at the old Clyde gym wonder what the
verdict would be well that the county's told us it's leaning so I don't know
that we'll get a favorable answer from anyone chances are it's not gonna be
safe to occupy probably not long term without being pessimistic I mean you if that's a
if that's the only option you get it's there but you really don't want to be
married to a spot no may or may not fit exactly what you need long term well
that's what I liked about what Trevor said is you came up with
concept it's best for the system then you locate it it's gotta get the concept
nailed down first I've always liked the concept of getting everything on one
piece of property somewhere and I'm telling me I need some breathing room
because you're gonna have a lot of moving
pieces and it needs to be honestly you're gonna need a few extra acres to
make sure that it's nice you don't want to put you don't want to cram 15 20
million dollars worth of nice buildings right in a place it don't fit you're
exactly right I mean just pure and simple I'll talk to
you just a little bit about some of the financial ideas I had and again I cannot
speak for you nor can I speak for the commissioners we have some options there
that might be suitable or palatable to our commissioners and one of the things
is that I've considered if they did not want to be tied to a project a
particular project we could ask for seed money I'm not going to throw an amount
out there but I have one ready for you I'm just again being very careful with
numbers I want to make sure they're accurate I want a pretty large sum to
begin with and then beyond that a recurring amount you know in however
they might choose to do that that way they are not tied to the project it
gives them some latitude it puts the responsibility on you as a board your
decision what you choose to do as a board and so I will throw a rough number
out there three million to start with a million recurring over ten year period
that may be too low as a start number or it may be too high as a start number but
you're gonna need some upfront money if it ends up being at the current side
site for demolition or maybe it's the extra acreage at another site and then
you know that money would be the responsibility of the board to manage
and what you choose to do with it is it's your choice and that way the
commissioners are not tied to a project which might again be a little more
palatable to them they may love it and say here we'll take it out of our fund
balance and give it to you but if they don't I you know we talked about
Trevor's idea over the last couple weeks and it's it's a very reasonable approach
where the truth is that it works hand in hand with funding formulas etc where
they say here's here's X number of funds we know that you have this to do now you
guys go spend it and then they just back away from the project altogether it's
basically a capital funding formula for a decade or something rather than you
wouldn't impact current expense that's just being considerate of our
commissioners they get beat up on a lot of things and you know I would hate to
see that for them I you know I'd hate to see it for us but you know taking
ownership of the project and choosing to spend that money making that our choice
rather than theirs and rather than them bearing the responsibility this board
choosing to bear that responsibility
well I know that at least two of us on this board and maybe not very far behind
we've been talking about this for 18 years yes sir
and we could have had it paid off and built and done by now
I will you know and the necessity is still the it's greater now than it was
18 years ago and if there's more years it'll be greater than it is today I
think it's time we address it and I think that's a palatable way to do it
we have ownership of it and it's basically alone with them doing a
principal once a year sounds like well let me ask you a
question you may be preparing getting ready to do this so if you're just hush
me up that's about it tonight isn't it but you know if you are though if you look
at it that sounds like a big number but if you look at the items that have to be
replaced if you decided not to go down that road you got any ideas well sharing
those out and I'm gonna give you large numbers in a range but a new gym if we
had to build back a gym for clyde or central Heywood high school and the only
property we have without moving the boardroom is across the river and you're
looking at five to ten million for a gym on the so right there's five to ten
million we're going up six feet before you really start before you can start an
thats the big thing I can tell you that that's the big thing yeah we we have
taken care of that we have taken care of that with with ten million we've taken
care of that project the other thing in keeping central available rather than
having to turn you know build this facility and turn around to the
commissioners and say oh by the way we messed up now we need an elementary
school at a cost of 20 to 25 million instead of 4 or two 10 million dollar
additions at Hazelwood and Junaluska you see the numbers how large they're
getting in a short amount of time some might propose
us using Central Elementary School again my job is to put information in front of
you and have you consider it and tell me which way you would like to go that
would not be my recommendation for the simple fact that I am aware of and have
been told there are confirmed four hundred units residential units coming
into Haywood County if our current space is turned into low-income housing
there's another hundred and fifty spaces proposed so now you're five hundred and
fifty units if half of those have a single child which is not typical most
most families choose to have two or three or but let's go on the low end and
in projections and say two hundred and seventy five which is half of the
proposed units have a single kid we're out of were beyond our occupancy at that
point and no plan for it if Central Elementary were to be you
know forced upon us to be used as a central office not only that to upfit
Central Elementary for a central office would cost around four million dollars
so when you start thinking about all those large numbers five to ten for a
gym twenty to twenty-five for an elementary four million to retrofit an
elementary school it's a fiscally sound plan and all it
rather than avoiding all that you know you're looking at an integrated
project that's good for our teachers gives them a really nice facility it
supports them and shows them they are valued and makes our efficiency even
greater and we give them and we give them the property we vacate if they give
us the money to build it I know you'd essentially payment
for the property that we're vacating I know you don't have any figures but just
cost savings alone would about paid the payment from getting
rid of crabtree Hazelwood what it's costing us for that in the repairs just
to maintain that's what I'm saying just to maintain those two facilities yes sir
so I you know I learned a long time ago that you have to consider what you're
asking of someone and is it you know helpful or hurtful to them and I really
feel like this this plan was completed in consideration of what we are asking
of Commissioners and is it a smart move is it's what we're asking to them fair
and is it a you know a good well-rounded plan that considers all of our needs dr.
Rogers you talked about capital money to give you a figure it's kind of like
what's already happened the bond that will that will expire and be completed
and everything paid off in 2025 was a 20-year bond it was for 25 million
that's 1.2 roughly 1.2 million a year and again if you heard some financial
figures and numbers that that we could propose to the commissioners that's
about what you're asking you know some upfront money a large down payment three
to five and a million in recurring that's not much different than what
we're currently in and it you know it requires that to keep your your
facilities up to date I if you're gonna move forwarding and present this
to the commissioners that I feel liked it
as mr. Burnett said we need to look ahead I I would ask for everything bus
garage a whole nine works let's do it all at one time because everybody's in
the same consensus that it's not going to get cheaper if we do it now and do it
all at one whack be done with it yes sir
and what there's another property we could vacate yes sir I think the only thing
we need to decide is if we're going to go after raw property and another thing
is it might work out and I was not here whe Bethel elementary was built but
it was my understanding that once the word got out the landowner came to Walt
and said I've got some property got a pretty good deal on that if I
remember correctly we kinda and somebody in the community could step up
and say hey I've got a piece of property
that's good point yes sir you never know and you know always he was talking
about current property well I think I think you gotta look around I mean you
just look at broyhill you look at Haywood County hospitals okay Haywood
Community College that whole corridor through there who knows what's in that
area that's gonna be accessible to the to the roads I mean you gotta be able to
get in and get out and then you don't want to put it not anything against any
community but you don't want put it in Cruso for heaven sakes you know or
anything like Crabtree yeah Crabtree or my fines creek no offense Crabtree you you
wanted on the Waynesville Clyde Canton corridor or the four-lane you want it
you want it on that corridor I believe really not more than a mile or so off of
that there's one thing about haywood county is we we love our students and we
love our schools so it would not surprise me somebody stepped up and say
I've got a piece of property you need to look at it wouldn't that wouldn't be a
shock to me at all yeah but I think again
what we've got to get before the commissioners is the concept and for
them to be able to identify that we're trying to put before them proactive plan
so that we don't have to take knee-jerk reactions down the road yes sir and then
second is you know if we if we really value the education that we provide to
our students and that that's the one question I've sat here and thought
about the whole time we've talked is how does this benefit our students well if
we're providing our teachers with with 21st century place to do professional
development and collaborate and all the other ancillary things that goes along
with it then we are providing for the student turning out the best teachers
we can and we're able to attract the best teachers that we could possibly
get so for me this is just me talking in concept
think you I'm like Chuck I think you now is the time move this thing ahead it it
saves a lot of money in the long haul somebody mentions tonight not about being at
the wells center possibly you know for that versus the funeral home I don't
want to be in a funeral home find out getting ready to do something about it the way it's
been going I might be there frustrate you it it would be very frustrating
I don't want will or his kids fooling with this if we can help somebody and
hopefully if the good Lord doesn't come back you know but it sure would be nice
if it was a long time well dr. putnam with you and you and all
that you have counseled with to come up with this it's a great plan it is I mean
well thought-out plan I applaud you for it
well dr. Nolte mr. Buchanan there have been several folks
involved in this plan and two admin assistants in there today helping making
sure the powerpoints were correct yes sir make sure it look nice and answered
as many questions as possible well I guess my next question is when can we
sit down with the commissioners and show them this PowerPoint thing I mean we
need that I'm like you said we need to move forward you see where we're at
he'll know more in a few days I'd say so we made the connection to them to there's
been some initial contact and I'll report back to the board anything that
comes out of any type of contact with them I talked to the new county manager
we'd like to go in and plant some seeds make sure we don't go into a big meeting
and get blindsided nor blindside them or blindside them yeah you know we'd
like to do this in a cooperative manner and plant a seed or to make sure it's
not going to be a make sure it's going to be a positive conversation so let and
then shortly thereafter get everybody together well I think these guys after
talking with them are gonna appreciate the fact that we're looking at it in the
direction that we are and we're not trying to blindside and we're trying to
communicate and well and I think also this board well especially the three or
four that's been here over eight years we've always tried to keep the county
commissioners in the loop and now I'm not saying that the county's never
worked with us by no means they've always had but it this plan that there's
dr. Putnam is putting forward is a little different than what we've had in the
past and it shows the need going forward of combining everything
into an educational to make the school the best it can be not just or the
school system not just one entity yeah just not one entity it's it's gonna make
everything but once we start this process I think you're County
Commissioners hopefully they will they'll come into play and as long as
they know this not on their plate I mean and I think that's another way that they
go there always one other way and I ain't no mention that tonight
I don't want to take up extra time but and we've been pretty calm and deliberate
tonight we've been that right downright excited about the idea that the main
entrance would be where people walk into nice training areas and then maybe if
you're gonna get to somebody's office you're going over on the side hallway or
the stairs or around back so what you're saying is the central focus of this
building will be training and it's about the teachers and making sure they get
the services they need and the training they need it's we it's you know like I
said we've been pretty calm and deliberate tonight but some of this is
really exciting I have my own visions of grandeur like but I say big double doors
a nice vestibule and coming off that vestibule are training rooms all the
technology first 21st century just a top-notch facility for our teachers and
staff to go in valet parking I will leave in valet park I will commit to
that according to who it is right that's correct
right so we've been talking like this 18 years it's once moving on this
let's keep moving let's just push you let's not stop and back up and think
well we're tackling another year most exciting thing we've talked about some
time agree I do have you put a lot of time and effort if we do this we be
able to do this long term I mean that's a lot of work but we need to hire
somebody Oh will will yeah we will need a we'll need a consultant someone to to manage
yeah to be a liaison we've had those people he's gonna have a
lot of architect anyway work he's got other stuff you're my new
best friend you're thinking looking that way thank you know how you've done all
this and manage your school system we probably you we probably need a construction
manager thank you you know part time thank you for all your
hard work your architect so yeah lots to somebody went to school to do
construction management thank you been great thank you
the next item here is facility use scheduled facility fee schedule a sign
to entities for using our properties and I put this before you just for
consideration there are some things that consolidating numbers may make this a
more easily read fee schedule and a more readily applied schedule if you look at
the second and third item over to your right and I gave you a paper copy and
also have it displayed we have a gymnasium use charge and we have a
gymnasium lighting charge to me it makes sense that I think it's
that if you use our property you are going to cut the lights on so in it
whatever the pleasure the board is on this it's a dollar charge it's a three
dollar charger it's a two dollar charge but one consolidated charge just for
efficiency sake one other thing to consider is that
fourth item if you look over gymnasium heating is a charge of eighteen dollars
and I want to apply this and do it as you would have me apply it according to
this fee schedule but that's a pretty steep charge for heating and we do not
it's not like we're cutting on the heat or cutting off the heat the heat is
there we have to maintain minimal heat just so the pipes do not burst and that
the building stays in good repair so but again I throw that out for your
consideration I will follow whatever guidance you give me and then if you
look at the highlighted areas there I'm not sure the discrepancy in the stadium
light charges but if you draw the short straw and you need to use Pisgah high
school or Canton middle school it's going to cost you $14 more an hour
to use those lights than it would at bethel middle school
or at central haywood high school and
maybe those should be uniform or the same probably does cost you more to
use those in it and it very well may be I'm sure a lot more light but I wanted
you to take a look at that and because this hasn't been revisited in a while
and I just wanted to put it before you and you you tell me what direction to go
on these is lighting fee is that $21 each time or hour that's $21
per hour and I know you probably I know Bethel
youth is the only one that ever uses the lights at Bethel and when I was involved
up there we paid electric electric bill pretty
much does that $21 an hour cover have any idea if it covers electric bill for
those lights I do not I can get you numbers for that and I imagine it's
probably higher than that but I'm you know I Bethel youth did used to pay as
did Canton Little League pay utility bills at some of our properties to the
best of my knowledge I had those arrangements have all been dissolved the
last one being at a property at Meadowbrook I believe Canton Little League
was paying an electric bill on a concession stand near the baseball field
or softball field on the back property which they had not even used in several
years as well as a bill at North Canton Elementary and it was they were paid it
was a good bit more to pay those utility bills versus what we charge in usage
then we came up with this schedule reason the point was to get it all under
we wanted to pay all the utilities an then charge them hourly feed it would be more
equitable to everybody cause over Bethel they were doing all kinds of stuff and
paying a lot of stuff over in waynesville somewhere not that they weren't but
just saying for example other locations work doing
Bethel was doing we wanted it to be more fair than that was the flavor of it was
the main point yeah and plus didn't some people were saying well we did this for
schools so we have to pay that go in this you know they were there trying
to barter something fees out didn't Tracy went in and did a study on
every facility you know what you know usage of watts and different things and
came up with that fee schedule I think to begin with and then we did took a
percentage of what the actual costs were to come up with a fee schedule I know
there's that may still be out there somewhere
that was a lot of it and then let's say dr. putnam we did mention this some in
policy because it's time to the policy about fee usage and when we
did the main thing was is we didn't want to put our youth groups out of business
you know we didn't want a charge I mean at first it was coming in way
expensive and usually worked with and got it right
felt like it was I'll give you an example on that our most of our youth
teams and I I'm just talking in round numbers here averages they pay about
1500 to 1800 dollars and that's with only the use of fee and the lighting
being applied if you calculate that heat at $18 an hour so you get they've been
being charged for three and you heard it was like around fifteen hundred dollars
if you apply that heating charge it's going to be way up there and and I did
you know it's not up to me to determine you know how to apply these fees this is
this is your fee schedule and I'll apply it as you tell me but I the heating fee
has not been being assessed do you have recommendations on changes
I would recommend dropping the heating fee
and the reason I would recommend that because of what mr. Henson just said
it's going to make the costs are going to go up astronomically for our youth
leagues
we are already currently heating might it kick in motion sensored in some
places a little bit extra yes but most of our gyms set resting at sixty
sixty-five on the weekend by the time you get body heat in there it's going to
warm up nicely to 70 and there's not a lot of additional heat being used my
recommendation would be to drop the heating fee if you started charging that
you talking about this board room be full of folks complaining about that
I don't think our youth programs could
afford it I used to figure they're there from 10 o'clock in the morning till 10
o'clock at night most of the time that's just on saturday just on saturday
this is just every night too they're also taxpayers you know the
thing that I'm sitting here thinking and you know and I coached youth basketball
a long time ago and was the principal at a couple places where they use the gym I
think our practice and our fee scale needs to be the same and we're not
following the fee scale because we're not charging that $18 I say take it off
of there and then combine those back to $3 and be done with it that would be my
recommendation and anything anything else that you see that we need to
address bring did you do like a bring to a meeting for a vote I mean yeah
okay so go through finance first did the and then I just wanted to see
if it was okay do something to help our youth sports get our children involved
in thing outside
well but not charge $18 we're already doing something but let's take it off
there so we don't yeah for instance you shouldn't have any rule
or any policy or fee schedule if you're not gonna follow it for some reason you
not needing to follow it get it off and clean it up and then get what's on that
and then follow what it is and be consistent with it and then you'll be I
mean I think we all aboveboard when we did that and I'm I'm not sure like I said
I'm I won't sound positive but I'm almost certain that bethel youth is only
one that even plays night games anymore football I think most everybody's going to have
gone to the day games and people in bethel don't hard headed don' wanna
goto midday games for some reason you got work to do during the day well I know
there's seven years of my life just telling you well and I was the community
all right so I will put together some rec a recommended fee schedule I just
did not want to do that without having brought it before you first okay and any
recommendations you have you know you get home you go wished out a thought -
telling just call me I'll be glad to incorporate that into the fee schedule
and I believe that's all I have I'm gonna shut up for the first time tonight
thank you thank you very just I don't have topic updates other than I put that
on there unless there was something you all want to talk about I did lay at your
spot the written summary from Todd on the wrestling the thing that I would add
to that I had obviously had several conversations with him and some of his
people about that he he likes that coach he thinks that fella knows wrestling
he's not really worked in a school setting like ours before he thinks a
lot of it it is just new guy didn't know who to ask
and then maybe different people not always following through on things they
talked about we had a key we didn't have a key we had a key we didn't know which
room it went to suppose with you been showing where the showers are that kind
of stuff but Todd worked on that really really hard and then I guess other
topics before we talk about the Gideons which you all asked to be on the
schedule for you all to talk about that
the I'll just start that discussion you know I'm ordained Baptists deacon I know I
don't act like it sometimes I've taught Sunday school for decades
and I do it with old people now who know the Bible so I think it's this can be
pretty challenging I would love to be able to distribute the Bible I am
concerned about you know what other doors is that open and is it legal in
the first place you know from personal perspective I'd love to do it I don't
know the answers as to whether or not it can be pulled off there's my contribution
there is other counties around us that are doing it Jackson well let me jump in
Oh my gosh here is thew lawyer I'm gonna tell you right up front you have to put
your personal belief behind you you cannot accommodate the request there
there have been cases on the gideons many years ago started off
they used to I remember when I was in school got my first gideon bible in 5th grade
and the gideons the were denied being able to come into schools and give
bibles out you had mr. Hanes say you had to be on the sidewalk you can hand out
what ever on public street the only way you could come into the school is a very
limited way you would have to change essentially your policy
we are a have been for years a closed forum district let me tell you what that means
the opposite of an open forum there is a lawyer's answer if yo allow a group to
come in be it the gideons or any other group you are an open
forum system you have to let everybody you let one group in you have to let all
in okay and in regard to and by that I mean if you let the gideons distribute
material well they can't distribute first of all they cannot distribute no one can
distribute religious or political or social
hapless stuff in the classroom you are limited times and locations in the
system but if you let one group come in the Gideons come in
you also let all religious groups come in
a jewish moron jehovah witness atheist wiccans pagans you have to also open
it up to political groups republicans democrat okay they can't have that
in you have to open up in social issues sexuality heterosexual LBGT groups
anyone we have all we have been a closed forum for a long long time
even if you do decide to be open forum say for example
the gideons what some of the joining school districts do do can do this and
actually goes back to a case out of so many cases out of our Fourth Circuit and
the case out of West Virginia I was going to hand this to you
most this handouts I brought to you are old this has been the law for about
since nineteen ninety nine 2000 and first thing I'm going to give you
this this is specifically bible distribution of public schools
I will make you a copy
Essentially if you if you're going to you cannot you can make it available
This case came out of west virginia it is called the [unintelligible] case
you can make bibles available but you can't distribute so you cannot go in the
classroom and say I'm a gideon here is a bible I'm a jehova's witness you cant do that
you have to be absolutely neutral on everything you do you cannot
say we are for this or against this even have to goto the point of saying
there will be no coercion in other words you cant have someone standing
at the table saying take one of these bibles you have to have equal access
and you will see a brief discussion about I'm gonna give all this to you they you can
read it at your leisure but what you can do and the gideons can do this they can
bring a table and they they can put it in a student area could be
outside of central office it can be a courtyard it can be anywhere
and they can put the bibles on there but you also have to put a placard can say
free you also have to the placard saying this
is not sponsored by the school system we're not endorsing this
they can do that but if you open it up you open it up to everybody
so I just ask you to think about that if you decide to do this that if a muslim group
comes or a pagan group comes or a wiccan group comes and trust me they
will come always go back to the classic story when I was the mayor of canton
we put up a mural churches of canton first thing we got was a request from
the pagan group out of candler they wanted the fall solstice meeting
they wanted to do it right in front of the church mural fortunately it was not
owned by the property was not owned by the town talked to the owner that leased
it to the town said no I don't want them in my parking lot so we had to give them a
place beside the colonial theater down there no one knew
what was going on they thought was basically in adult Halloween party
it was on the night of halloween but they will come
I'll give this to with you they can do that you can't has to be they're very
strict rules okay I brought a couple of other things to you because this has been an
issue this is an overall issue of distribution of non school material to students
this is an older pamphlet but it
also if you read lets pray legal guidance on prayer at board meetings see this was
October 27 this is the latest wanna talk about that with ya'll too.
in regard to that issue if ya'll want to pursue the idea of working with the gideons
I suggest you refer this to the policy committee because you have to develop
policy that says any religous group can come and this is how it is going to be
limited and then you are gonna also have to open it up to political and social
issues to come in cause we have been for years a closed district not since
the 90s early 90s well I know but I mean we've been closed since early 90s
I'm gonna give this information to you I think before you make any decision
before you decide to recommend this to the policy commitiee you need to read
this and talk I do know that a couple of schools in madison county
does the table and they can leave it for a day you have some latitude you can say
all groups everybody bring your material for one day students can
walk around are you can say you are entitled to one day a year
to bring your materials so long as you open it to everybody
is there an age deal I'm glad you brought that up because I just don't know that
the elementary kids gonna have the where with all to know whats was just 5th
grade the only way you could do that case law says a secondary school you can
put stuff out in a secondary schools secondary level kids are supposed to
have the where with all to think about it and make judgement about what they
want to do 1st grade you know elementary do not have that now
I will tell you there is mixed decision whether you can do even a table in middle
school okay some say yes some say no statute says secondary elementary
is a middle school secondary is it elementary as I was reading through
some of this in preparation I believe it was a ruling by the 4th circuit court
they considered elementary to be 1-8 it typically is that's the definition we
don't use that locally for staffing purposes because we don't want to
superviser going K 8 and 1 going you know nine twelve but yeah the the
standard educational definition is secondary is where you're earning high
school credits and even though you have a few eighth graders do it secondaries
typically considered high school so I'll give this information to you please look at it
but I think your first decision is are we going to be an open forum district
or are we going to be a closed
okay we're not you're not saying we can stay close if we did the table
deal no once you do that you are open then you can limit it to one day a year or you can
limit the location for example you can say we are gonna allow you this group to
come that you can put your stuff out on the table but you have to leave
on each table you say the school district does not support or endorse this
but this is here and you could theoretically have a table of gideons
a table of jehova witnesses table of mormons table of pagans table of
atheists let everybody just come by and pickup whatever they want to pick up
I worry about the sexual preferences myself and age group
they are young how much how much levity do we have with our student interest
groups student interest groups are a different thing
distributing we and we have all varieties of those too we have
Bible clubs and FCA and youth for Christ and groups of faith but we also have like you
know there's a diversity Club how much levity do they have if it's the kids
nobody's gonna follow up with these kids if it is student lead FCA as you said
LBGT group anti-bully group because that's falling in the different as far as the
students wanting to express themselves here you have an outside group
remember we have dealt years and years and years and every school deals with
every group wants to get into the school system to propagate their position right
wrong or indifferent and unfortunately there's some you know I think are
terrible you let the ones you think are good come in you got to let the terrible
ones in it's a very tough decision to make
I think the first thing you need to decide and give it some real thought
and I know y'all will do you are a good board but you gotta say
are we gonna be an open or a closed district ya'll probably ya'll probably
not believe what we screen already dr. Garrett did it before me and I'm sure
people before her and I do Brooke can tell you I do some everyday of
stuff we distribute and most of its fine you know most of its like businesses
yeah most of its fine but every day we're screening stuff one thing so
madison county they do one day per year have their table there north buncombe
community because I think they have like a community night and they say let
everybody bring anything you want parents can come teachers can come
students come their gonna have everybody that has any type of thing
they wanna put out can be there once a year that
meets the requirement for being open district that buncombe count district
each schools do differently they have addressed issues of being open we're
gonna be open let everybody come they do it like a night and have a big
session we've never done that but you know we this is not the first time that
we have had to deal with religious issues I've said before trying to think of an issue
we had was from the Wisconsin based freedom against religion and they were upset
about something I always felt I was doing the right thing because I'd be getting faxed
don't know what you're talking about you're the dumbest lawyer that has ever been
2 minutes later
I'd be getting faxed from the other group the other side say you're the dumbest
Lawyer I've ever seen I was right in the middle saying no because we
really have to walk a very
narrow path fall off wander off the path then you get sued I'm gonna bring
something else to your attention was a recent case
and I think this does need to talk about this
out of Salsbury Wayne County case we just recently came talking about
prayer at board meetings I think we've been okay at
this point I think we need have a little
discussion I'll give you this case we've been some recent decisions on that and to
show you that it does have an effect this is an article comes
out of Salsbury paper where Wayne County
Commissioners just had to pay the ACLU $285,000 for their attorney fees with going
all the way up to supreme court and back they did something differently than what
we do this is what we stopped this years ago they were talking a lot more about
all we are all all the Commission will get a prayer but they were much more
oriented to the Christian faith than the general one like you do I think so wan
y'all to read this is the case they just decided and then this is the county
commissioner paid and they have commissioners have
this is what I was talking about groups wanting to come in and tell you what to do
the commissioners represented by National Center for life and Liberty and
then you head the ACLU other side so they were just proding each other all
gonna give these this is the take some time when you don't have anything else to do
you will see what the Rowan county commissioners were doing still do
prayer what their doing saying leaning more towards having volunteers coming
in from the community so you get a diverse opinion all the churches coming in not just
one opinion
you said well you're talking to the board now I'll just summarize what's your yeah
that's what's gonna say what's the summary for the board meeting
the summary prayers for the board meetings
I want you to read that case and there's some
examples gonna make me read it yeah there is a couple on what county commissioners
are doing how they were doing it basiclly you can have prayer but it has to be
very general in nature and it is but you still can do it but as regard to the request
of the gideons I'm sorry you just can't do it if you do want to pursue this further
then I think you need to refer it to the policy committee and have some
good discussions on open forums can you go back and tell us again about student organizations and
what they're allowed to do and don't do
lets take the FCA FCA is a you have a school teacher sponsor but they can do
students can talk one on one with the students students can ask people to
attend the
meaning they can handle their meetings how they can have prayer again because
this is coming from the student not from some outside group
could the students hand out Bibles to other
students well I think it all depends on the cirumstance and time and thinks like
that but I think that's I think you can but that's where you don't get
into a kid can the kid can hand out Bibles but then the next kid that wants to
hand out a Koran can also say that's that's where the kids the kids have the
kids have the freedom to do what they want to we've obviously seen that last
year they can walk out and not get in trouble but if a kid how my
understanding is now I'm not a lawyer a kid can do what they want to as long as
how our policy reads as long as it is not what is the word to interfere we are
disruptive to instructional time that's on a group individual student group as long
as it is not dishonest say I'm a student involved in a fellowship group
of christian athletes as a student lead organization at our weekly meeting
monthly meeting annual meeting daily meetings should our organization
decide to have such I have the ability as the leader of the FCA to invite
in a speaker to speak to our group that is right to your member or perspecive
members or perspective members of my group volunteer to come on own
as the leader of the FCA I could set up a mic for them where we had a celebration
the guest speakers are the gideons and they are gonna have bibles available
for any body that wants to take them we have not opened up our forum
we are still closed forum yeah you could do that at a an event like fields of faith
exactly you can do all of those things within that you could do
it's just like meet me at the pole you can invite you can invite your classmates
say we are gonna do this meet me at the pole and you can do that we have gotten
we sorta had to watch things is when 1st 2nd third graders are out there
now realistically first second third graders have the ability to organize that
and lead that generally not so you gotta watch teachers and every body else
coming and doing it so you are right you can do that
just like a nursing hospital care club you know future nurses
inviting people come in and speak with it's in you can invite them and say it is here
now should that information get out and be wide spread you're probably gonna have
some work to do because there will be groups come against it even students
lead organizations I don't think I would have any trouble defending FCA
saying we are meeting not on school facilities cause
we now allow all groups to come use school falcilities
yeah we have a pretty good handle on this is the diversity Club meeting time
and they may even get them on a school bus and all go to a meeting in
Asheville or FCA's meeting or the Chess Club
or you name it their meeting we have a pretty good handle on control of that
because if an individual wants to come in and do that you go we don't have
a club for that let me tell you how things have changed when I started 35 years
ago it was the law and the policy that we did not let any group outside school
use facilities except sports we started getting in a lot of churches started
wanted to use school facilities we said no you can't the law changed the equal
access act was passed the schools system can adopt and say we let anybody
and we adopted say let churches in let other groups come in and has not been
a problem but again once you open up to one you open up for all and the
we have had issues with all sorts of groups trying to get into the school
information wise if the gideons would like to do that there is not a thing wrong
with going to the FCA and saying you wanna call me and we will be able
to pass out bibles it
immediately takes me to a place takes me to the place and all of a sudden I
standing on mount looking over the Jezreel
Valley and I think about Elijah as he was summoned to that mountain and they
summoned Elijah and he summoned the prophets of bail all the prophets of
the groves and challenge them I'll tell you what we're gonna do we're gonna
we're gonna build an altar we're gonna put the wood on we're gonna lay it out
and see which god shows up
and of course they brought of bail wait there they begin to
cry it became about midday the Bible says and they hadn't been seen fire
yet and Elijah said we'll make these on vacation maybe
he's asleep maybe you need to holler a little louder finally no avail the time
sacrifice was a six hour Elijah called on his god fire pored
from heaven he poured the water the
water goes send water to send fire to send rocks so there's a part of me that
says and a big part of me that says you know
let's just see which god shows up I've got a lot of faith in mine I agree
and consume the prophets if you open it up understand your phones are gonna
be ringing all right let it
ring well let's think about just a minute I just told Jimmy the only people
come to my house last year's jehova's witnesses we got over a hundred churches
in this county those guys come to me at ingles and corner me up I'll tell you
just like I've told them if you want to give your neighbor a Bible walk across
street knock on their door and hand them one this is not the platforms we were not
voted for this I feel the same way ya'll do I'm conflicted but he's telling
you every way possible don't do this because they're not doing it now they're
not knocking on doors but the jehova's witnesses are the wickens will all
these other groups will beat your kids they will be there they'll be lined up
waiting they won't be Christians lined up cuz they're not lined up now but they
will those other groups will be lined up down the parking lot he's telling you
don't open this door I'm telling you don't talking about student
groups yeah you're preaching to the choir there already got bibles FCA
already had bibles you don't need to do anything with the student groups other
than our other than I have the principal's remind the student
if they want to get resources from the community they can get them
I'm just afraid what's going to
happen you you don't need to do anything with the student groups they're already
up and running and passing out materials and you got a wide range of them in these schools
I'm gonna tell you when there was the 450 prophets of bail four hundred
prophets of the grove standing up from Mount Carmel when you stood there I know
it's awesome and there stood Elijah
I'm tempted to believe there's 850 people scared one that wasn't
I mean I agree all y'all are very passionate and I believe you know love
you know I know you're right but you gotta come up I'm not questioning your heart
at all you're looking at you're looking at protecting students and I am too
I just believe with all of them listen to me listen I believe with all my heart
all right one of our jobs is to protect students but I'm gonna tell you there's
one that can do a better job protecting the students than we can
his name's God I believe this is not what this we're here for I'm sorry I say
that we need to think about it progress slowly with it pray over read the
materials that are attorneys given us there go Saturday we talk about a lot of things
in concept we know you are just doing your job I will tell you the same thing I told
every one of you there are times this board's best interest I take heaped on
my head and this is one of those times I need to earn my money and say the
lawyer said this is not think long and hard about this that is part of my job
the lawyer says we need to do this well I'm telling you can't do it the way
they want to do it you cannot hand out bibles from 5th grade through high school
only thing you can possibly do is pass a policy about open forum get some
guidelines on this table that they can pass things out and that is the only thing you
can do and if you do then you are gonna have problems you gonna have everybody
and if I could just summarize the decision-making process if you're going
to leave it a closed-form you don't have to anything if you're going to pray
about it and discuss it and open the forum then you need to come back as a
group and give us direction to do that if you're going to rely on student
interest groups you don't have to do anything because those groups can get
materials from whomever they want I just want to try to categorize it that way
well I still got another question I'm not gonna preach this is really a question how
is it that and the reason I'm asking so I really don't know the answer is how
how is it that you go to a ball game at say Jackson County or a ball game you
could play Cherokee that they have a student-led group that will open that
ballgame in prayer and we can't the only way I can answer that is that no one
has well I don't want to cause them any trouble and you know may be a little
no one has complained I know of a school district I'm not gonna name them
that is clearly violating the law and all the need to do is have somebody complain
and that will be it and it will happen the I know
it is just a time somebody will come forward and say the question is
the question then is are the leaders of that community and by that I mean
board members and county commissioners who are instructed and
sworn to follow the law are they ignoring the law which is worse or are they gonna
sit there and say as long as no one complains or are you gonna say we
can't do that
I went to a I went to a this is probably 15 20 years ago I went to a service one of
our choral groups was taking part in a
church service and I had to come back and I told superintendent at that time
look I was there volunteer I was there because I wanted to see the Christmas
program at church if our choral group I'm not gonna say who it was or when it was
does that again they were clearly in violation of the law last night somebody
finds out about it there is not a way we can possibly did not make the paper
did not make the press did not make anything else I couldn't sit there and
sit there say to the board to say this is okay say I
don't care it was a nice program but it was clearly illegal I told the superintendent
so it would not happen again so to answered Bobby's question though if they
are and I don't know just say if their Fellowship of Christian Athletes or
their leaders are taking turns with the president of that is that is saying the
prayer before a football game or a basketball game is that legal
most things that are student lead and are not organized are ok for example
you saw football players come out go otu to the field and kneel pray before the game
personal student athlete's descision it is not lead by the coach it is not lead by
anybody they can do that it's a difficult thing to often times if for example or not a
good tap dancer Pat if you are saying there is a group of kids in
the stands say you know before the game
pray they can pray the question is who organized it you know is it really a
student-led voluntary thing they want to do or is it being called by some outside
force so if the if the FCA president at Tuscola or Pisgah walked
into this boardroom and petitioned us to allow them to say the invocation at
friday night football games I'm probably gonna tell you you can't do that
you'd be better off if they petition the principal it
still would be touchy because you're using the microphone and the electricity
yeah it's getting more and more readdressed you know even even the
teaching of Bible classes in high schools I mean that's talking about
current events that's today's newspaper about and if I'm not mistaken Florida
now the Virginia or West Virginia one or both have allowed it
we can have Bible history and we can also have Bible literature and
everything and we have we have found teachers with the license and scheduled
the classes and unfortunately didn't have a lot of people sign up for them we
can have a history course electiv based upon the Bible and we can have a
literature course and it's a study of the literature or the study of the
history but but we don't have we don't have a lot of kid sign up for them
ballgames thats clear you can't do it if a student just
simultaneous to do it here again how many people gonna sign the pledge the
prayer said we're saying prayers same time in the same location if you were as
an announcer said alright we're gonna have a moment of silence and it's
implied that you that's right we're doing it because the students are gonna
do their prayer now you've orchestrated that even facilitate there was an issue
couple of issues at Tuscola 2 or 3 years ago during the moment of silence
people started saying the Lord's prayer they did
call comes to me and said what can we do about it I said well at this point I
don't do anything see what happens if it continues on somebody's
I don't know if it is still going on or not I was
getting complaints about that yeah why don't you guys just see lets not loose
our heads see if it continues on and whats behind it and go from there
I don't think Anne at that point in time did anything just wait and see what happens
if it got to the point of being organized generally
accepted thing then we may have had to do something about it
so has to get back to the board prayer not too long ago you told us that in
other words if mr. Francis called on me to pray and I pray it in Jesus name
that it was my individual right to do that now it's changed let me be more clear
far as my personal belief I'm praying
you can't do that because it is not that you are praying for yourself you are praying
for the board praying for the board you cannot say
wouldn't one of these people have to complain that I'm not praying for them
because we're not praying for them people we're praying for this board
I know but you're praying for as long as you are asking when you read that case
you'll see the things in the courts when you begin a session of a legislative body
it is the understanding that we are this is more above than just there is nothing
wrong with calling on higher spirit higher guidance or something that is more than
just everyday arguments of life the things you do every day and that it is important
think about things be wise and just but if
you start putting one religion over another for example in Jesus name that's Curtis
saying this is a Christian prayer one of the things I got from that case was they
were saying all the commissioners for Rowan county were christian
so you are not having any other faiths addressed because no body if you
got a board entirely made up of Christians not gonna say a christian prayer
and you'll see a reference for the case of Greece I think
what they do is just they just have volunteers in the community come by
and you know have a christian volunteer a jewish would do it they just volunteer it all goes
back to it we can't establish one religion over the other
are you intentionally doing are you just this defacto doing it just doing it by
omission like not taking care of something if we know that that a
ballgame that we are not supposed to be having prayer and we say thats ok
we are not following the what we are supposed to be doing as a board can I ask
admin questions probably shouldn't ask so you know we have a birthday party
every now and then and that kind of stuff for someone in the office or you
know it will have a Christmas lunch and we almost always pray before we eat
what's what what are the rules layers just us girls you know
there is there's nothing wrong for this there's not a thing wrong with me
before this board meeting saying the board is going to jump me tonight all mighty lord
help me not a thing wrong with that and there is you know there is not a thing
wrong with me an Jason saying lets pray here together just a minute but we
are not doing it out to the general public so you think we're okay if it's just the twelve of us and we're
here and we go hey mark or Jeff or hates telling the principal's but we're
recording they had their meeting the other day and
one of the ladies pray heaven forbid but it was voluntary it was a closed group
well are students present no no when you have students there in a captured
environment that is when you have problems so it's okay to pray but not
okay pray to God I think Jimmy is fine can't call in Jesus
Christ last thing read that Rowan county case and don't do what the Rowan county
case does it matter if we're an open session or not when we do that or if
there's could you pray before the meeting before you know you actually
started the meeting
yeah yeah but before do it before and then I'll call the meeting to order
about this conversation no body ever has it I know some time we split hairs
Unfortunately you don't always know every situation is
different well I think if nothing else we've got a good dialogue going tonight
we've made Pat earn his money a little bit tonight and I think that you know
it's a work before you pass this is a work session and and we've done some
work on this I think this is gonna be a longer discussion and we can add it to
another work session well I think that again we need to proceed diligently
cautiously because I mean we were elected to uphold the Constitution number one
uphold the laws of the land good bad or otherwise we've also taken the oath of
office for that then we've also all of those here I think was convicted in our
beliefs and we don't want to leave them at the door when we walk in here and
No and I and that's the reason I say this is a discussion that is it's gonna
have to be deliberate and carefully thought-out and we this is not our
first rodeo on this either let me just say again be cautious and deliberate about it
thank you thank you
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