MASSACHUSETTS EDUCATION COMMISSIONER DR.
CARLOS SANTIAGO WAS IN WESTERN MASSACHUSETTS
THIS WEEK.
SANTIAGO IS CAUTIONING THAT THE ABRUPTS CLOSURE OF MOUNT IDA
COLLEGE IN DEDHAM IS PART OF A LARGER TREND HERE IN
MASSACHUSETTS, AND BEYOND.
LAST WEEK, ATTORNEY GENERAL MAURA HEALEY OKAYED THE
$75 MILLION SALE OF MOUNT IDA TO U. MASS AMHERST, BUT ALSO SAID
SHE WOULD INVESTIGATE WHETHER MOUNT IDA OFFICIALS VIOLATED
THEIR FIDUCIARY DUTY.
SANTIAGO'S OFFICE HAS WORKED WITH HEALEY'S TO UNDERSTAND
THIS SUDDEN TURN OF EVENTS.
BUT BEFORE SANTIAGO AND I GOT TO THAT, I FIRST ASKED HIM ABOUT
THE STATE OF PUBLIC EDUCATION.
>> THIS IS PROBABLY THE MOST CHALLENGING I'VE SEEN IN MY 30
PLUS YEARS.
BECAUSE THE DEPARTMENT -- DEMOGRAPHY IS CHANGING.
SO AT A TIME WHEN MASSACHUSETTS AND ITS INNOVATION ECONOMY NEEDS
MORE EDUCATED AND SKILLED WORKERS IN ITS LABOR FORCE, THE
PIPELINES ARE GETTING A LITTLE DRYER THAN WHAT WE WOULD HAVE
HOPED.
>> ONE OF THE THINGS GETTING IN THE WAY OF THAT IS COST.
>> COST IS, AFFORDABILITY IS ONE OF THE THINGS MORE ON THE
INDEPENDENT PRIVATE INSTITUTIONS THAN OUR PUBLIC INSTITUTIONS.
BUT EVEN AMONG THE PUBLIC INSTITUTIONS, COSTS HAVE BEEN
RISING.
>> SPEAKING TO YOUR POINT ABOUT THE NEED FOR, WHEN YOU LOOK AT
THE LIGHT MANUFACTURING INDUSTRY IN PARTICULAR, WE KNOW NOT ONLY
HERE IN MASSACHUSETTS BUT THROUGHOUT NEW ENGLAND THERE ARE
A LOT OF OPENINGS IN THAT AREA.
SPRINGFIELD TECHNICAL COMMUNITY COLLEGE IS THE ONLY TECHNICAL
COMMUNITY COLLEGE IN MASSACHUSETTS.
WOULD YOU LIKE TO PUSH FOR ONE OR TWO MORE TECHNICAL COMMUNITY
COLLEGES?
>> WELL, I THINK IN MANY RESPECTS EVEN OUR NONTECHNICAL
INSTITUTIONS ARE STARTING TO MOVE MORE IN THAT DIRECTION OUT
OF NECESSITY.
SO WE KNOW THAT HISTORICALLY SOME HAVE BEEN MORE TO TRANSFER
INSTITUTIONS OR MORE OR LESS TECHNOLOGY FOCUSED, BUT THEY'RE
ALL MORE OR LESS STEPPING UP TO THE PLATE.
I THINK THAT'S GOOD FOR EVERYBODY.
>> BIG NEWS WE'VE BEEN HEARING STATEWIDE RECENTLY IS THE
PURCHASING OF MOUNT IDA COLLEGE.
LAST WEEK WE SAW ATTORNEY GENERAL HEALEY APPROVE THAT
SALE.
WHAT'S YOUR REACTION TO HER DECISION?
>> WE'VE WORKEDERY CLOSELY WITH THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S
OFFICE.
WE ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CLOSURE PLANS OF THOSE
INSTITUTIONS AND REVOKING THEIR DEGREE AUTHORITY.
SO WE'VE BEEN VERY MUCH INVOLVED FROM OUR PERSPECTIVE.
STUDENTS COME FIRST.
AND FINDING THEM CREDIBLE PATHWAYS SO THEY CAN CONTINUE
THEIR ACADEMIC CAREER IS CENTRAL, THE MOST IMPORTANT
THING WE'VE BEEN DOING.
IT HELPS US WHEN THE ATTORNEY GENERAL CAN BASICALLY ENFORCE
SOME OF THOSE ACTIONS.
SO WE HAVE RELIED ON HER OFFICE TO HELP, WE'VE WORKED TOGETHER
WITH THEM ON SOME OF THE TRANSFER PROGRAMS.
AND BY AND LARGE, EVEN THOUGH MOUNT IDA HAS HIT THE NEWS FOR
THE LAST MONTH OR SO, THE REALITY IS THAT OUR DEPARTMENT
HAS DEALT OVER THE LAST FIVE YEARS WITH 15 SUCH CLOSURES AND
MERGERS.
AND THE OTHERS HAVE NOT GOTTEN ONTO THE FRONT PAGE OF THE
NEWSPAPER OR NEWSCAST.
>> THE CIRCUMSTANCES AROUND THIS ONE WAS UNIQUE, THE TIMETABLE
WAS BRIEF, AND YOU WROTE A LETTER TO THE PRESIDENT SAYING
YOU WEREN'T FULLY BRIEFED ON THE FACT THAT THIS WAS HAPPENING,
RIGHT?
>> I DID MENTION TO THE OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE THAT I WAS
NOTIFIED AT THE STATE HOUSE IN A FUNCTION WHEN A REPORTER PUT A
MICROPHONE IN FRONT OF ME AND SAID WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT
THIS CLOSURE?
AND I TOLD THEM WHAT CLOSURE?
>> PROBABLY NOT THE WAY YOU'D LIKE TO HEAR ABOUT THAT.
>> NOT THE WAY WE SHOULD HAVE BEEN INFORMED.
>> TO YOUR POINT, THE DEPARTMENT HAS DEALT WITH 15, AS YOU SAY,
OTHER CLOSURES ARE MERGERS.
ARE YOU CONCERNED THAT THERE ARE OTHERS ON THE HORIZON?
>> WE THINK EVEN IF YOU LOOK AT THE NATIONAL DATA WE ARE SEEING
MORE THAN WE'VE EVER SEEN BEFORE, AND THERE ARE MERGERS AS
WELL AND CLOSURES AND CONSOLIDATIONS.
SO I THINK IT IS A SYMPTOMATIC OF WHAT'S GOING ON IN PUBLIC
HIGHER EDUCATION AND PRIVATE HIGHER EDUCATION, IT'S
SYMPTOMATIC OF THE DECLINE IN ENROLLMENT.
THE MOST VULNERABLE INSTITUTIONS ARE SMALL NONPROFIT INSTITUTIONS
THAT DEPEND MOST HEAVILY ON TUITION FROM STUDENTS.
THOSE ARE THE ONES THAT ARE MOST IN JEOPARDY.
>> WE DON'T HAVE THE LARGE ENDOWMENTS THAT SOME --
>> THEY DON'T HAVE THE RESEARCH DOLLARS, THEY DON'T HAVE THE
OTHER KINDS OF STREAMS OF REVENUE THAT CAN SUPPORT THEM
DURING THE TOUGH TIMES.
>> YES.
WHEN WE LOOK AT HIGHER EDUCATION MOVING FORWARD, WE HEARD A
REPORT LAST WEEK FROM THE HOPE INSTITUTE, AND YOU MIGHT BE
CONNECTED, IT'S CONNECTED TO ONE OF YOUR FORMER INSTITUTIONS.
>> YES.
>> BUT WHAT WE THREADER IS THAT STUDENTS ARE STRUGGLING AT THE
STATE AND UNIVERSITY LEVEL WITH EITHER HOMELESSNESS, HOUSING
INSECURITY, OR FOOD INSECURITY.
HOW DO WE NEED WHAT ARE THE CHANGES THAT NEED TO BE MADE TO
HELP THESE STUDENTS?
>> IT'S INTERESTING, WHEN YOU FIRST BROUGHT UP THE ISSUE OF
AFFORDABILITY, I IMMEDIATELY THOUGHT OF TUITION AND FEES AND
BOOKS.
WHAT WE KNOW IS IN THE REALITY OF THE STUDENTS THAT ARE COMING
TO OUR INSTITUTIONS NOW, OUR PUBLIC INSTITUTIONS, WHEN YOU
TALK IT OUT, THE COST OF EDUCATION, IT DOES INCLUDE FOOD
INSECURITY, HOMELESSNESS, TRANSPORTATION, AND DAY CARE.
>> NOT THINGS THAT PEOPLE WHO ARE THINKING ABOUT GOING TO
COLLEGE TRADITIONALLY THINK ABOUT, RIGHT?
>> ABSOLUTELY.
SO THERE ARE A NUMBER OF THINGS.
WE'RE WORKING WITH OTHER GOVERNMENT AGENCIES, WE'RE
GETTING THE FEDERAL NUTRITION PROGRAM TO APPLY TO STUDENTS AS
WELL, SO WE'RE WORKING ON SOME PILOTS.
WE'RE USING SOME OF THE STATE UNIVERSITY BEDS THAT ARE
AVAILABLE AND SEEING IF THEY CAN HOUSE TEMPORARILY COMMUNITY
COLLEGE STUDENTS.
THERE ARE AVAILABLE BEDS, YOU HAVE AVAILABLE STUDENTS, THEY
STILL HAVE TO PAY FOR THOSE BEDS WHETHER THEY'RE FULL OR NOT.
SO THIS IS A GOOD WAY TO GET OUR,
PARTICULARLY OUR 24 STATE UNIVERSITIES AND COMMUNITY
COLLEGES WORKING TOGETHER.
SO THERE ARE SOLUTIONS, AND IT'S JUST A NEW WORLD FOR MANY OF US.
WE NEVER THOUGHT THAT HUNGER AND HOMELESSNESS WOULD BE A CRUCIAL
ISSUE, AND NOW IT IS.
>> I KNOW IT WAS SOMETHING THAT WGBH, YOU SPOKE TO THEM IN 2015
WHEN YOU FIRST BECAME COMMISSIONER, THAT THIS WAS A
CHALLENGE, AND AT THAT TIME THE REPORTING POINTED OUT THAT ONE
OF THE WAYS THIS WAS BEING LOOKED AT WAS BY HAVING ON
CAMPUS FOOD PANTRIES.
>> YES.
ALL.
OUR CAMPUSES HAVE FOOD PANTRIES.
WHEN I FIRST TALKED ABOUT THAT IS WHAT I WAS HEARING FROM
STUDENTS.
THEY WERE TELLING ME THEY HAD THESE ISSUES.
MASSACHUSETTS IS ACTUALLY THE FIRST STATEWIDE SURVEY OF ALL
THE PUBLIC INSTITUTIONS IN THE HOPE LAB, SO WE WERE VERY PROUD
THAT AS A STATE WE STOOD UP.
ALL THE CAMPUS PRESIDENTS OF OUR PUBLIC INSTITUTIONS STOOD UP AND
SAID LOOK THIS IS AN ISSUE, WE WANT TO SEE THE EXTENT OF THE
ISSUE.
AND THE RESULT THANKS WE'RE STARTING TO SEE FROM THE SURVEY
SUGGEST YES IT IS AN ISSUE, AND IT'S NOT ALL THAT DIFFERENT FROM
WHAT WE'RE SEEING A CROSS THE COUNTRY.
>> ONE OF THE THINGS YOU CALLED ATTENTION TO IN THAT 2015 REPORT
WAS THAT GRANTS WERE ONE OF THE WAYS THAT THESE PILOT PROJECTS
WERE BEING FUNDED.
IS THAT STILL THE CASE AND IS THAT A PROBLEM?
>> WE HAVE BEEN ABLE TO GET SMALL GRANTS TO SUPPORT THIS.
WE ARE SEEKING ADDITIONAL DOLLARS FROM A VARIETY OF
SOURCES TO SUPPORT IT.
WHEN YOU MAKE THE CASE THAT THIS IS NECESSARY, PEOPLE SOMETIMES
SHAKE THEIR HEADS AND SAY HOW CAN THIS BE.
AND I THINK THE REALITY IS WE JUST HAVE TO CONFRONT IT IN
DIFFERENT WAYS, AND WE'RE EXPERIMENTING.
I REALLY THINK THE PRESIDENTS OF OUR INSTITUTIONS HAVE STOOD UP
AND SAID, LOOK, THIS IS SOMETHING WE NEED TO ADDRESS.
THEY ALL HAVE FOOD PANTRIES, AS YOU MENTIONED, AND I THINK WE'RE
LOOKING TO SEE HOW THE STATE UNIVERSITIES AND COMMUNITY
COLLEGES CAN WORK TOGETHER TO PROVIDE LIVING LOCATIONS FOR
THESE STUDENTS.
>> WHETHER YOU'RE A STUDENT OR NOT, I'VE TALKED TO FOOD
INSECURITY ADVOCATES ON THIS PROGRAM BEFORE, ONE OF THE
CHALLENGES FOR PEOPLE IS THE SHAME OR STIGMA ATTACHED TO
SEEKING THAT HELP.
>> ABSOLUTELY.
>> WHEN YOU WERE A PHD STUDENTS, FOOD INSECURE WAS SOMETHING YOU
STRUGGLED WITH.
WHAT WOULD YOU SAY TO SOMEBODY WHO MIGHT BE IN A VULNERABLE
POSITION TO ENCOURAGE THEM TO SEEK OUT THAT HELP?
>> YES, I THINK OUR CAMPUSES HAVE TO BE MORE ATTUNED TO
WHAT'S GOING ON IN STUDENTS' LIVES.
AND I THINK THAT WOULD REDUCE SOME OF THE STIGMA.
I THINK OTHER STUDENTS ARE GREAT AMBASSADORS FOR THEIR PEERS.
THEY SUPPORT THEM, THEY HELP THEM.
SO WE HAVE TO DO MORE OF THAT.
BUT A LOT OF THIS IS NEW TO US.
IT'S INTERESTING, YOU HAD MENTIONED MY TIME WHEN I WAS A
GRADUATE STUDENT, I EVEN FORGOT I SAID THAT AT THAT INTERVIEW.
BUT IN FACT IT WAS AT A TIME WHEN I RECALL THAT I HAD A
FAMILY, I WAS MARRIED, HAD A YOUNG DAUGHTER, I WAS IN
GRADUATE SCHOOL.
AND WE COULD APPLY AND RECEIVED THE EQUIVALENT OF THE SNAP
PROGRAM, FOOD STAMP PROGRAM.
THAT WAS VERY IMPORTANT, IT WAS TEMPORARY, BUT IT HELPED YOU GET
BY. AND IT MADE A DIFFERENCE.
>> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT YOU'VE POINTED OUT AS OUR FIRST LATINO
COMMISSIONER OF EDUCATION IS YOU'VE WRITTEN A LOT ABOUT THE
CHALLENGES YOU SAW AS A STUDENT, AND PUTTING YOURSELF OUT THERE
TO HELP OTHER STUDENTS SEE THEM SNESTLES YOUR SHOES.
YOU WROTE IN A BOSTON GLOBE OP ED THIS PAST FALL SOMETHING AND
I WANTED TO READ IT.
MANY OF US HAVE ONE FOOT IN THE ACADEMIC WORLD AND THE OTHER
FOOT IN THE WORLD WE CAME FROM, STRADDLING A FAULT LINE THAT CAN
FEEL LIKE A PERSONAL IMBALANCE.
HOW DID YOU MEET THAT IMBALANCE FOR YOURSELF?
>> WELL, I THINK IN MANY RESPECTS, PARTICULARLY COMING TO
THE UNITED STATES AT THE AGE OF 3 AND MOVING AROUND FROM PUERTO
RICO, MOVING AROUND, MY FATHER WAS IN THE MILITARY.
SO MY YOUNGEST BROTHER WAS BORN IN FORT DEVENS HERE IN
MASSACHUSETTS.
WHAT I DID WAS BASICALLY BEGUN RESEARCHING AND WRITING AND
PROMOTING THE KIND OF SCHOLARSHIP THAT FOCUSED ON THE
REALITY THAT MANY OF US NOT ONLY EXPERIENCE BUT ALSO READ ABOUT
FROM OUR PEERS.
WE FOUNDED THE PUERTO RICO AN STUDIES ASSOCIATION.
WHEN I WAS PRESIDENT WE HAD OUR MEETING AT U. MASS AMHERST.
THOSE ARE IMPORTANT LEGACY POINTS, BECAUSE YOU HAD A CADRE
OF NEW YOUNG FACULTY THAT WERE REALLY INTERESTED IN LEARNING,
WHAT IS THE REALITY OF THESE COMMUNITIES THAT ARE COMING TO
THE UNITED STATES AND HOW ARE THEY THRIVING OR ARE THEY NOT
THRIVING.
WHAT ARE THE OBSTACLES THEY'RE FACING.
SO I WAS VERY NORTH NATIONAL TO BE ABLE TO TAKE MY ACADEMIC WORK
AND SAY LET ME USE WHAT I'VE LEARNED IN THIS COUNTRY IN TERMS
OF MY ACADEMIC EXPERIENCE, AND APPLY IT TO A GROUP THAT I DON'T
THINK HAS BEEN TALKED ABOUT IN TERMS OF WHAT THE REALITY THEY
WERE EXPERIENCING.
>> ONE OF THE THINGS WE KNOW ABOUT THE LATINO POP US IN THIS
REGION AND THE STATE IS ONE OF THE ONLY GROWING SECOND TORGS OF
THE POPULATION HERE.
>> YES.
>> IN TRYING TO CONVINCE THOSE STUDENTS RECOGNIZE THEIR PATH TO
COLLEGE, ONE OF THOSE PROGRAMS IS THE 100 PEOPLES TO COLLEGE
PROGRAM.
AND YOU'VE WRITTEN ABOUT YOUR SUPPORT OF THAT.
WHAT'S THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THAT PROGRAM?
>> I THINK IT'S HUGELY SIGNIFICANT.
WE STARTED IN SPRINGFIELD, WE HAD ALL OF THE COLLABORATIONS,
WE HAD THE SCHOOL DISTRICTS, U. MASS AMHERST, WESTFIELD, STICK,
ALL OF IT, THE INSTITUTIONS WERE PARTICIPATING.
BUT THE BEST WAY TO DESCRIBE HOW SUCCESSFUL IT'S BEEN IS THAT
FROM THERE WE THEN HAD FRAMINGHAM EXPRESS AN INTEREST
AND WORCESTER EXPRESS AN INTEREST AND NOW WE'VE GROWN IN
BROCKTON AND SALEM.
SO WE FOUND THAT THE COMMUNITIES IN WHICH THESE STUDENTS COME
WERE VERY HUNGRY FOR THIS KIND OF APPROACH, THIS APPROACH OF
TAKING A STUDENT IN HIGH SCHOOL, A STUDENT THAT WAS CERTAINLY NOT
AN OVERACHIEVER, A STUDENT WHO STRUGGLED A BIT BUT HAD GOOD
ATTENDANCE AND WAS INTERESTED IN SCHOOL, BUT WAS NOD PROGRESSING
WELL.
AND THAT'S THE STUDENT WE FOCUSED ON, AND WE GOT THEM
INVOLVED IN THIS APPROACH, GAVE THEM COLLEGE CREDITS WHILE THEY
WERE IN HIGH SCHOOL SO THEY COULD UNDERSTAND WHAT COLLEGE
WAS LIKE, AND IT'S MADE A TOWARD OF DIFFERENCE FOR THOSE STUDENTS
AND THOSE COMMUNITIES AS WELL.
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