>> DEB VERHOEVEN: I think we are moving forward, yes.
Thank you.
Over to you, Andrew. Andrew is the Vice-Chancellor of Charles Sturt University.
Andrew Vann, thank you for agreeing to Chair this Panel on Students Quality Success
in Regional Education.
>> ANDREW VANN: Thank you, Deb, thank you very much.
And thanks everybody for being here, thanks for the Panel.
Could I just start by acknowledging the traditional owners, and Uncle Bill's wonderful
welcome this morning as well, that was fantastic.
So I'll make some opening remarks and then I'll introduce the Panel and just for everybody's
information, Koady Humphreys who's the Student Association President from UNE, is...
That is your right title, isn't it, Koady?
>> KOADY HUMPHREYS: Yeah.
>> ANDREW VANN: Is on the Panel, but he's not on the programme, so I'll come
back and introduce him again in a second.
So I thought, I just want to make some brief introductory remarks, and reflecting
on the discussions that we've had already this morning, I was, kind of, wondering is
quality problematic for higher education or is it problematised.
So we certainly talk a lot about it, but I think it's, it's an interesting question as
to how much there is a genuine quality issue and where we look for them.
So for example, particularly with the take up of technology, as Glyn was talking about
this morning, was it a higher or a lower quality experience we had with Minister
Birmingham address this via video, which meant that we could be on Twitter or check our email
without worrying about offending him.
[Laughter] And I remember talking to, and I think it's
worth asking what is it that we mean by quality in higher education, I remember hearing a
Radio National Philosopher's Zone programme a few years back talking about happiness and
the person there was making the point there are widely different definitions of happiness,
from fleeting pleasure through to a life well lived.
And if you confuse those definitions you can have some very difficult and confused conversations
about what happiness means.
And I think the same thing with quality. I remember talking to a guy from Austria
some years back at a conference who said if you ask what kind of things you want from
a university you get different answers to what is quality, so is a university a place
to push the furthest boundaries of knowledge? Is it a safe place to foster social criticism?
Is it a place to train people for professional employment? Is it a place to find marriage
partners for the children of the elite? Or is it somewhere to put people until they're
safe to release into the broader society and...
[Laughter] That could be the students or staff.
So I guess, you know, one of my worries is that too often we, kind of, default to an
assumption that the ideal higher education experience is a school leaver who goes straight
to university, studies without interruption for three years, graduates and then goes straight
into the job that they knew they wanted before they went to university.
And it's not a very good sketch of the current sector, which is increasingly mature
aged and part-time, it's not a good indication of my experience, because I dropped out of
uni first time around, but I got there in the end.
And I think particularly if you have the wrong mindset, regional higher education
becomes problematised, because regional higher education is more mature aged, more part-time
and more distance-based than that, you know, that sketch.
So typically students in regional universities will have complex lives and complex responsibilities.
Having spent the last 21 years myself working in regional universities in Australia, I certainly
don't see regional higher education as problematised but it's certainly worth
a good discussion.
And we've got four great speakers to talk about this today. We have Bridget Neave
who is from a regional background, but studying at the University of Sydney, and Bridget will
go first.
We've got Kerri-Lee Krause, who's the Deputy Vice-Chancellor (Academic) and Professor of
Higher Education, La Trobe University, who will go next.
We have Helen Huntly, OAM, who is the Provost at Central Queensland University, or CQ University
I can call it still.
And last, but by means least, we have Koady Humphreys, the Student Association President
for UNE who, as I mentioned, is not on your programme, but he's very much here and we're
very pleased to have him.
So they're all going to speak for about five minutes each and then we'll have time for
your questions.
So please do send your questions in, and as a reminder, if you want to target your question
to one of the Panel members, please flag that up at the start of the question.
So we'll start with Bridget, thank you.
>> BRIDGET NEAVE: Thanks Andy.
>> ANDREW VANN: Away you go.
>> BRIDGET NEAVE: I guess I'll be coming to the topic today from a different perspective
than these guys. Rather than being intimate with the statistics and metric measures of quality,
success in student life, I have daily experience with the tensions that are caused to
the experience of students by problems and discrepancies in these measures.
I live and work for Australia's first student managed housing cooperative, independent,
it's associated with the University of Sydney, it was set up with funding from the Department
of Social Housing, the University of Sydney and student-run completely.
We have a legal requirement that two thirds of the people that live there are from a low
SES background and eligible for social housing.
So this has given me a really unique experience to have grow up and
live around 40 other people like this.
I myself moved. I grew up between Newcastle and Hunter Valley, and I moved to Sydney,
because I wanted to access the best type of tertiary education that I could, and a
lot of other people at the co-op that I live with moved from Darwin
to come to the University of Sydney due to the perceived greater opportunity, greater
prestige and resources that the Group of Eight unis in major cities would have.
I wanted to draw on the fact that my perspective has highlighted for me that the quality
and success outcomes in central city universities is largely mitigated by informal, informally
measured challenges to students, as well as how these challenges are compounded, especially
for financially dependent, low SES students transitioning to the city.
Andy, you mentioned that there can be a massive disconnect between the proclaimed
excellence of the institution and the lived experience of the graduates and the students
that go there.
Transitioning to the University of Sydney, for me, was something that was quite difficult,
and unexpectedly difficult, and an experience shared by many of those around me.
As a low SES student, I received Youth Allowance since the age of 18 outside
Newcastle. I used this to support myself and in Newcastle you can really get by
with just Youth Allowance, maybe a small part-time job. Rent in the centre of the city is
$120 per week, so it's completely fine, and it works.
In Sydney it was a very different story and it's something that I, to the extent
of which I really couldn't have anticipated.
With the maximum Youth Allowance rate being $250 a week, and then the cheapest university
accommodation being $270 a week, that highlights the kind of discrepancy that you
have to deal with, and that's a very low amount if the accommodation is 270 and with the University
of Sydney it does go up to $750 a week.
So the idea that I had of coming to the city, as a financially independent student,
it wasn't really as glamorous as what I thought I might be experiencing.
I soon realised that the typical experience that I saw at college had a price tag on it,
which really does require intergenerational wealth transfer, without exception.
Even with Government benefit and working two days a week, alongside study, accumulating
that kind of money wasn't possible for me.
And this has been exacerbated by skimming of welfare state measures, like the Relocation
Scholarship. That was a scholarship which provided financial assistance, so it
was by Centrelink, to allow students to move from regional and small cities to larger metro
areas.
Whilst this scholarship still exists, there's been slow redefinition of the terms of rural,
regional and major city in Centrelink's terms, which means that whilst the scholarship hasn't
changed, the students that then can fit into that scholarship's requirements are getting
smaller every year.
So had I moved three years ago I would have been in the right area.
And that is a wonderful scholarship, it provides, I think $4,000 for the first year, $3,000
and decreasing year after year, but however, that's a measure that's being
decreased.
Oh yeah, and this year as well, the change to the Student Start-up Scholarship has
been something that's impacted me quite negatively, because in the past it had helped having a
$1,000 each semester, provided by Centrelink, to assist in things like textbooks and unexpected
charges like dental and stuff like that.
However, now it's a loan, which adds to your HECS debt and it further disincentivises
study for students that are already financially independent.
Students like me who face this dual struggle of having to relocate to achieve what you
believe would be the best possible education you can have and being low SES, it
creates a burden that often sees us fall through the cracks of the university system, because
there is a need to work very hard to earn enough money to pay rent,
and you don't have any connections in the city. You also have a lack of knowledge of
how to do very basic things moving out when you're 18, like work out a Share House Lease
or, you know, how to provide, go for a new dental provider or how much
you have to pay for dental care, that's something I had no idea about until two years ago and
that was a big shock.
But also many students like us do not exist within the pockets where university
support is offered or where you can really hear about what type of support is offered.
Lately I've been spending time, in the past year with friends of mine at official
university accommodation places like the colleges and official accommodation, and I've
learnt about so many services, which I had no idea about, living in student share
houses and student cooperatives.
So there's free counselling and casework to assist you psychologically and with administrative
things, a plethora of scholarships for accommodation for low SES students and peer
networks that support all of these things.
However, I feel like this often doesn't get to the students that really need it.
Because, from my perspective being a first-in-family student to go to university, scholarship wasn't
really something that I'd heard tossed around until actually being at university and hearing
about all these wonderful scholarships that people were receiving.
For example, someone that I lived with at the co-op, we talked a lot about her experience,
she moved from Mullumbimby to Sydney in a completely financially independent state,
and there are a plethora of resources that USyd could offer to her, however, it
couldn't possibly reach her, she was living in a share house about an hour west of
university, on public transport.
It took all of her capacity to simply go to uni, go okay in her studies and work enough
to make ends meet and pay her rent.
Leaving students like her completely at odds with the university's social community
and the networks that would enable the transition to be somewhat supported.
As well as not having the creative energy or time at the end of the
working week to get involved with student advocacy and bodies like the NUS or the SRC,
which could enable this perspective to be heard more and go into the decision-making
process more.
For example at my university I was very shocked to find out that we don't have a low SES officer
on the Student Representative Council, while we have officers for most other identities,
such as women's officer, LGBTQI officer, we don't have anything for low SES, and I
would say that this is largely due to the fact that people that very much emphasise
and are passionate about this experience don't have the creative energy at the end of their
week to be involved in this type of advocacy.
I know that the only reason that I'm able to participate in things like this and come
and share this type of perspective is because I've had the luck of being at a student
housing property, which is subsidised for low SES students, so I only have to pay $92
a week.
However, if I was having to work enough to pay rent in Sydney, which around Newtown and
the university is about $180 a week for a share house, it would be a different story.
The great thing about the housing property that I live in is that it does enable us to
do things like this and have opportunities like this.
Being surrounded by so many students sharing feelings of moving to university and slipping
through the cracks of university support systems has shown me that there is a big disconnect
between institutions with a lot of prestige and wonderful resources, like my university,
and how this doesn't necessarily translate into student livelihoods and outcomes for
a large group of the population.
It ties into the fact that with the increasing student to staff ratio, it's likely to undermine
the quality through decreasing the accountability of the institution for each individual student.
And whilst these indicators are quite hard to measure, they do very much dictate the
education experience entirely for those that they do affect, and diminish their chance
of succeeding through tertiary education.
Thanks.
[Applause] >> ANDREW VANN: Thanks very much, Bridget,
thank you.
I was just reflecting that I'm in a situation where when I moved to Charles Sturt my eldest
son went to study at the university I left and I still had a hard time explaining how
all the systems worked to him, so universities are complicated places.
So, I meant to say also at the start, I'm really pleased we've got equality representation
from students and staff from the universities on the Panel.
We'll finish with Koady, but we'll go to Kerri-Lee next.
>> KERRI-LEE KRAUSE: Thanks very much.
And Andy, to your point about problematising quality in higher education, I wrote a little
while ago on the wicked problem of quality in higher education and so maybe in the discussion
we can talk a little bit about my thesis.
But let's remember in the Higher Ed Standards Framework that one of the defining characteristics
of a higher ed provider is indeed that we demonstrate engagement with our local and
regional communities.
So, that being a starting point what I'd like to do is just reflect on three things as a
bit of a conversation starter.
First of all, a bit of data, a bit of research, secondly, I'll move to some of the challenges
of regional education provision and then we'll end up with opportunity.
And I'm going to ask this question, we did say, Andy, that we were going to have a bit
of fun on this Panel, so...
>> ANDREW VANN: Yes, please have fun.
>> KERRI-LEE KRAUSE: So the question for the audience, and we'll come back
to this is, what is the link between regional education, funerals and sexpos, I'm coming
back to that at the end, that's just to keep you awake, what is the link between regional
education, funerals and sexpos?
If you don't know what a sexpo is, you can Google that while I'm talking.
[Laughter] So, a bit of data first of all, the national
First Year Experience studies, a fantastic suite of studies of the First Year experience
here in Australia, dating back to 1995, trend data that's been very valuable.
In 2015, the findings for regional First Year students were something along these
lines, that they did not as a cohort report any significant differences in their
ability to adjust to uni study.
Students from regional and remote backgrounds were generally more positive about the quality
of teaching and overall satisfaction than their urban peers.
They were also more likely to report that they engaged positively with university orientation
programmes.
And I'd be interested to know from our students in the audience, and if you have
any regional background and experience, whether that is in fact your own experience.
But it's not all positive, so data out of the National Centre for Student Equity
in Higher Ed, suggests that there are some particular issues relating to students from
regional and remote Australia trying to engage in higher education.
And interestingly, Louise Pollard, the 2017, one of the 2017 National Equity Fellows,
is doing a study on remote students' university success and she has just recently provided
a presentation and is writing up her research and she is looking at the importance of investing,
not only in regional education, but also in the remote student experience.
And she shared some really quite bracing examples from her data collection that
reflect, just this is one, just one slice that the challenges that students in
remote areas have in terms of using internet access to try to engage in study.
And she relayed, stories of academic staff having to photocopy materials, having to post
Telstra wireless dongles to students, and indeed one academic staff member who really
did mean well, I'm sure, and thought that they were doing the right thing in terms of
assuring equivalence, said to the student I'm sorry I can't help you with providing
further internet access, because that would be giving you an unfair advantage over others.
So there is this challenge, isn't there, about how we actually translate the standards
and our commitment to quality into practice in particular circumstances.
And that brings me to some of the challenges. Certainly equivalence is a challenge in regional
higher education, we know that regional classes typically, and cohorts, tend to be on a smaller
scale typically, compared to the metropolitan equivalents.
And while that sometimes poses a challenge, it also poses a terrific opportunity, so the opportunity
to innovate in those smaller contexts, the opportunity to provide that sense of connectedness,
we've heard about the importance of that on the previous Panel.
So there is a flipside to the challenges, but nevertheless they do need to be recognised.
Let me talk a little bit more about some of those opportunities then in closing, we talked
about the connectedness and, and in talking with some of the staff on our regional campuses,
La Trobe University has four fantastic regional campuses.
And I know some of our colleagues are here today.
And in talking with one staff member, they talked about the fact that students on
regional campuses are connected into local communities in a much greater way than
might be typical in a metropolitan context.
There are fewer degrees of separation between business and community leaders and those students
in regional classes and cohorts.
And that brings me to a real opportunity, I think, at La Trobe we're looking at the
opportunity of bringing our international students into the regions, to introduce them
to smaller communities, to introduce them to opportunities to connect with industry
and community.
And I'm very pleased to say that just in the last few weeks we've had a terrific success
in the story of Chi from Vietnam, she's an HDR student who is studying at our Albury
Wodonga Campus, and she's there because of the specialised research opportunities that
that particular campus offers and she was the winner of two Victorian International
Education Awards.
And I talked with her about how she ended up at Albury Wodonga and how she transitioned
from Vietnam to Albury and she said at first it was a real challenge, but to quote her,
she said, I wouldn't be studying anywhere else, she said, I've learnt so much from that
transition experience and it's the best choice I've made in my life.
And one of her colleagues, Su, is also here, an international student.
So there are some great stories from international students who've had the opportunity of regional
education.
I'm going to finish there, but I'm going to go back to my question, what is the link between
regional higher education, funerals and sexpos?
We don't have time for an interactive Q&A right now, so I'm going to get right to the
answer, and the answer is, on our Bendigo Campus we offer an Events Management Programme
and one of the graduates from that programme, a couple of years ago found themselves
working in Bendigo with the funeral director, perhaps not necessarily the employability
outcome that that person envisaged at the start, but actually when you sit down and
think about it, those skills are indeed highly appropriate for working with members
of the public on occasions that really do need that sort of skill and expertise.
And where do sexpos fit in?
Well, just a few weeks ago we heard that, again, one of our graduates from this programme
has been employed by the organisers of the sexpo, Sexuality Health and Lifestyle Exhibition,
just in case you weren't sure.
And, again, not necessarily one of your most typical graduate destinations from this programme
but another good example of where a student on a regional campus has found terrific
employment outcomes.
And I do hope you've read The Australian today, the Higher Ed supplement, where we talk about
the importance of regional education as investing in the regions and employing
regional students back in regional context, and there are some great data on that.
I'll stop there Andy.
>> ANDREW VANN: Thank you Kerri-Lee.
[Applause] >> ANDREW VANN: What happened to my mic?
After you.
>> HELEN HUNTLY: Thanks Andy and thanks Kerri-Lee and thanks everybody for your participation
this afternoon.
I'd just like to note that my presentation's is going to, is not going to include either
death or sex but I hope you find it interesting nonetheless.
So the theme of the 2017 TEQSA Conference: Students, Quality and Success, and then this
particular Panel with a focus on all of those elements in regional education.
I'm picking up on a theme, I can go one better than Andy, I've been working in higher
education in the regions for nearly 30 years, and in my experience, students who engage
in quality education that focuses on their needs are very likely to experience success.
And it's really important to note, I think, while we're focusing today on, in this Panel
on regional education, quality education provision is quality education provision, regardless
of the location of the education provider.
One of the differences, however, that we need to be really aware of in teaching and
training regional students is they are a very different demographic to their metropolitan counterparts.
And as Andy said, I don't think we need to look at that as a problem necessarily, it's
just a fact.
Whilst the demand driven system in Australia, since its inception, has seen an increase
in regional participation, our regional students are still very well underrepresented
in Australian universities.
But to be clear, our regional students have the same intellectual capacity to succeed
at university than anybody else, be they metropolitan, rural or remote locations.
We do have to be very aware though, and the research and my experience certainly bears
this out, that our regional students have a number of additional barriers to overcome.
Some of those have been mentioned already today on the Panel by Bridget.
And some of those barriers relate to the fact that a large proportion of our regional students
come from a lower socio-economic background, as with Bridget they're the first in their
family to attend university, as was I.
We have high rates of Indigenous learners.
We have a large number of students who have had an extended period away from formal education.
They are largely studying part-time, combining paid work with their study.
And many of our students have family and carer responsibilities.
So, given that demographic, providers of higher education in the regions must be very well
aware of the characteristics of our learners and work really hard to provide the services
that they require to participate fully in their studies.
If we do this, then our students will have every opportunity to experience a successful
education.
Just to drill down into the specifics of regional need, at CQU, we aim to
address the four Ps, some of you may have heard of Kalsbeek's Retention Framework:
and those are Profile, Promise, Process and Progress.
And more recently researchers at our university identified a fifth P, and that is Preparedness.
So what do these five Ps actually look in practice?
Another P. What I'll do is just quickly go through the five categories and give you
one or two examples of how CQU aims to address that particular area of need.
The first is Profile, and I've already talked about the importance of identifying the
demographic of our students and trying to meet their needs.
At CQU, as with a lot of universities, not just regional universities, we prioritise
the provision of equity scholarships, so regardless of a person's financial background they have
access to high quality education.
I think we have a way to go with this, but our learning and teaching policies, and I'm
being careful because our Pro Vice-Chancellor (Learning and Teaching), is sitting in the audience,
we really try to be considerate of the competing priorities of our students.
In terms of Promise, what Kalsbeek says about Promise is that we actually have to deliver
on what we tell our students we will provide them with at university.
And obviously those of you who listen to the advertisements knows that CQU tell our
prospective students to be what they want to be, so it's up to us to support them to
actually do that.
We do that in lots of ways, but one of the most successful and acknowledged ways at our
university is the provision of really high quality and no cost academic learning services
to support our students through their studies.
And this also includes no cost after-hours academic support.
Andy's already mentioned the fact that the processes at university can be really confusing.
Bridget mentioned this too, coming from anyone, not just a regional student, into
university, how to enrol, how to submit your assignments online, how to engage successfully
with your learning management system, are just a few of the different processes that
students will have to make themselves aware.
So what we do CQU, and it's a more recent initiative, is we provide academic liaison
officers in each of our schools and paid students mentors, so that students can actually have
that point of contact throughout their studies, and we're finding that really successful,
the students are very grateful.
In terms of Progress, we have to make sure that we're not just looking at students at
the end and seeing how many students graduate or complete, but we need to monitor
their academic progress throughout their studies.
So, at CQU, as with a lot of universities, we have a monitoring academic process,
and the aim of which is that no students shall be left behind.
And finally, our own P, Preparedness, what we do to ensure that our students are ready
to engage in higher education, in quality higher education, is to provide them with
a very high quality and, again, no cost enabling programme.
We also highlight the inherent requirements in our courses, so students are really well
aware of what's facing them and what skills and aptitudes they'll, not only that they'll
develop, but what they'll need to complete their degrees.
I also need to add, this is an unpaid political announcement, that many of those initiatives
in ours and other universities are provided through the Higher Education Partnerships
Funding, our HEP funding.
And also the access to enabling programmes is provided by Federal Government through
that funding.
And my unpaid political announcement is, please keep your hands off that money, to our Government
it is very important that all universities, but especially regional universities, have
access to ongoing funding that supports our student demographic.
So in conclusion, I would argue that Australian higher ed providers are already doing really
well in the provision of quality education, however, we must remain vigilant and identify
the needs and then meet the needs of our students, regardless of their location.
And we must maintain a commitment to continue to listen to the student voice, which we're
about to do as I think Koady's coming along as our final presenter.
Thank you.
[Applause] >> KOADY HUMPHREYS: Yes, so I'm Koady
Humphreys, the current President of the UNE Students Association, and I was asked to join
this Panel, within the last fortnight, so in preparation for this I did what not many
institutions do, I conducted some student consultation.
[Laughter] Which involved, first of all, going to my
Board of Directors and seeking input, what they could define quality and success as,
because that was where I was first led to by the title of this conference.
Now, one who is particularly notorious for being cheeky sent me screenshots of the Google
definitions of quality and success. So the definition of quality is the standard of something
as measured against other things of a similar kind.
Now, you obviously can't measure quality against quality, because that would be nonsense.
And then you've also got success, the accomplishment of an aim or purpose.
Now, I went back and took this to the Board and then again to more students that came
along to our most recent open meeting and more and more ideas came through.
And there was a genuine consensus among students that success is measured by our
personal confidence.
So at a more grounded level, success is very selfish in nature, so it's
our journey.
Which led back to the person that sent me the screenshots, going it's like the difference
between a pair of Timberlands and your pair of $30 shoes of boohoo.com.
But the thing is that it's no matter where you come from, an institution whether
it be TAFE, not-for-profit, for-profit or a university such as UNE, it's about the transformation.
So we come in, whether it's as your typical school leaver wanting to become a lawyer,
or you come in as, what the majority of UNE students are, is as a mature age student
wanting to transform their career path, such as the other student representative from UNE
here today, Penny Leary, who is on her third career change.
So it's all about the transformation and the path.
So one of the really big points that was really thrown about is that transformation
and its measure shouldn't be about the difference between going to one of the top eight,
the Group of Eight unis in the cities or going to a regional university that's
well away from metro areas.
Like, we were talking before at lunch about the actual success figures that come out of
the RUN, so that's the Regional Universities Network, and one of the few times that
I've been on Panels before has been with the RUN network, and they've continuously promoted
the fact that you see successful graduates coming from regional-based universities.
So it's really coming down to marketing and really pushing out that it's not about coming
the big city where it's more expensive and you're less likely, no sorry, you're more
likely to be disadvantaged as a low socioeconomic, where rent is more than exuberant, when
compared to a basic regional university.
So the other big point that came across in this consultation was that it's very
much about the standards.
So UNE is currently going through a big transition where we're looking at minimum expectations,
so, which is basically our quality standards, so what's our benchmark, where is it going
to go.
And we as an industry will have to do that do ourselves as a whole.
There was the big discussion this morning about all the risks and everything, which,
to me at first, oh that seems like the usual Council meeting conversation but when
you really start thinking about it, we as an industry need to transform.
And it shouldn't be about whether you're a regional university or a metropolitan university,
it should be how can we as an industry transform our, we call them students/assets,
into something that can actually be worthwhile to other industries in Australia, to Australia
as a whole and even as further as the globe.
Because one of the biggest points that came out of one of my external Board members
is that we need to really stop looking at ourselves as Australians, we need to start
looking at ourselves as global citizens and how each of our decisions has a greater impact
and a bigger ripple effect on the globe as a whole.
So that's what I learnt in the last week and a bit just for from genuine consultation.
Thank you very much.
[Applause] >> ANDREW VANN: So we've got some questions
coming up on the feed here.
Bridget, that first one was for you, and I'm just trying to pass that, but I think it was,
is it actually about, is there a need for more, I'm going to try and summarise this,
is there a need for more resourcing or is it that people need to be more aware of services
that are available?
And do you know the answer to that question might be another?
[Laughs]
>> BRIDGET NEAVE: I can try.
[Laughs] I think there's two separate problems and both of them are very,
very severe.
First of all, there is definitely an under-representation of low SES students, and that is due to a
lack of resources focused in this area, especially in elite institutions like the ANU and University
of Sydney.
I know at University of Sydney our statistic is, I'm not sure exactly, but it's below 5%,
or between 5% and 10% of low SES students.
And that has to be from a lack of resources being focused in this area.
However, I think that the experience can be extremely, extremely alleviated and this problem
can be immensely alleviated by just more focused, more focused work, I think that the streams
in which these things are advertised are not necessarily the streams in which these students
exist.
I know that there are huge pockets of students that are experiencing
these things, but they don't necessarily engage with the traditional university communications
and things such as student networks, like the SRC and things like this.
I think it could be benefited a lot by more communication between different organisations
within the university that seek to target this.
I know all universities have different organisations within them and different bodies
which seek to increase representation of low SES students and alleviate the disadvantage,
except maybe sometimes when there's a lack of coordination between these different
approaches, does it translate that there's not actually a systemic push coming
forward.
Yes, it is a lot to do with, I think, I'm not sure if advertising is the right word,
but advertising these services.
I know I haven't ever had a problem hearing about the number of opportunities
that I can go on exchange, because that's something that I always find information
about this online, on the website and stuff like this, but support for low SES students
and ways that I could receive support isn't something that I've been bombarded with myself,
it's something that I very much go to look for myself, which is, it's good for students
to have the initiative to do this themselves, but also I think there is a responsibility
on the institution to infiltrate this and do this.
Yeah, that's all I'd say on that.
>> ANDREW VANN: Thank you.
And actually one of the, I think there was a comment, is this an example of creating
resilient students, and I think the answer to that must be yes.
We might just, I think, I've realised they fill from the bottom not from the top,
so one of the questions, which I think would be interesting if you're able to comment on,
is, how can we overcome the perception of regional universities that leads to students
thinking that the Group of Eight are the only places for opportunity.
I don't think that's what you said, Bridget, but can you provide a comment on the
relative perceptions, actually anybody, from a student perspective that might be because,
Koady, I think you said you came from Sydney to UNE, didn't you, so do you have any comments
on how you understand those things?
Bridget, you said that you deliberately went to Sydney to go for a good quality education
but any comments from either of you on...?
>> KOADY HUMPHREYS: Well, see, I actually went UNE for quality, so it's the same argument.
So one of the big things at, so this was, I finished HSC in 2013 and one of UNE's biggest
promotions was flexible study and a really strong thing within the community was that
there was a quality education provider there, because of the staff to student ratios.
So rather than being one in, basically 1,000, as they say about anyone in metropolitan universities,
you were one in 30, just like you were during the last 12 years of education, 13 years of
education.
So, again, there was the comfort that you could go on to your studies and understand
that the assistance that you may need as an incoming student is at arm's distance, you're
not, and if you do yell out or ask a question, chances are you're going to be recognised
and pointed out and responded to, rather than being part of a massive cluster.
>> ANDREW VANN: Yes, thank you.
Bridget, do you have any comments on, I mean, I took it from what you said,
that your main issue has been the living side of it, from an educational
point of view you haven't felt, I mean, you've been happy with what you got from your experience
at Sydney, I presume?
>> BRIDGET NEAVE: Yeah, like, so amazing. I definitely don't question my choice
of whether to have come to the university, I love it, I think it's fantastic, such
a rich learning environment.
And I think, I hear the same thing from University of Newcastle students, but I don't
think there, there hasn't been that many complaints, that I've seen, on behalf of the actual quality
of education, more about the accountability of each student to, the
university to each student.
>> KOADY HUMPHREYS: Yeah, and on that, so whilst I was doing my rounds with my
Board and students, a lot of them have studied at other institutions, so they're
constantly comparing the teachings at Deakin to UNE and Monash to UNE, Monash to Deakin
and everyone against everyone.
And the, what it really comes down to is that every student is different, you know, and
being able to teach to an individual is probably one of the most difficult tasks that there
is, because everyone takes in and absorbs knowledge and translates it very differently
to the next person.
>> ANDREW VANN: Yeah, thank you.
[Applause] >> ANDREW VANN: I'm just wondering what
about the, there's an elephant in the room question there, is there a danger
that the fact of regionality becomes an excuse for lower quality or poorer student outcomes?
Who'd like to pick that one up?
>> KERRI-LEE KRAUSE: Oh look I'll jump in there, why not.
I think that's always a risk, you know, that's one of the themes we picked up
earlier today that if all we rely on is perception and anecdote, then we're
in, I think, very dangerous territory on all sorts of fronts, but let's talk about
regional education.
So, I think that's why having robust datasets, both qualitative and quantitative
from a range of sources, is just so critical.
And gathering that data, hearing the student voice about their experiences,
making sure that we're getting those strong stories and strong
evidence based stories out there.
Into the community, into newspaper headlines, you know, I think that's really important.
It's too easy to stereotype and, you know, I think from, hopefully from what I've
said you've heard me emphasising the real strengths of regional education.
And I like what you say, Koady, about the fact each student is different.
And it is very much about, you know, what is fit for purpose for me as a student in the
particular course I choose, the way I choose to learn and as I mentioned earlier,
you know, we have strong data that reinforces the real benefits of studying in
the regions.
But also hearing the student voice on areas for improvement, I think, you know, to your
point, Koady, about listening to students, where there are issues to be addressed, if
they are regional specific then they must be heard and addressed.
And I think, you know, we have some good mechanisms in higher ed providers broadly, not just universities,
but higher ed providers broadly, for listening to the student voice and responding.
>> ANDREW VANN: Not to lead to the witness, but the Higher Education Standards Framework
asks us, it insists in fact, that we attend to external benchmarking, do you have any
comments on that?
>> KERRI-LEE KRAUSE: Absolutely.
And, yeah, so, you know, that's why I mentioned earlier also the issue of equivalence that,
you know, that is a really significant tenet of the Higher Ed Standards Framework.
And looking at what that means for particular courses in particular institutions is a, I
think, a very important, ongoing process that helps us to monitor and assure quality.
>> ANDREW VANN: Thank you.
Helen, do you want to...?
>> HELEN HUNTLY: Andy, yes, and look sometimes I get a little bit offended that the only
measure that seems to be valued in this country, and many others, of successful outcomes,
for our higher education students is completion rates and attrition rates.
And I'm really mindful that regional universities, such as ours, does not, do not have enviable
attrition and completion rates.
But what we need to say is that we are working really closely with our student bodies,
to address the needs of our students.
And some of our students won't finish their studies.
That's not to underestimate the importance of the experience that our students have had
and how that changes their lives, and I'm not making an excuse, but whether they have
completely got to the end and graduated and gone out and received a job,
or if they've gained experience and self-confidence in completing some of their degree or some
of their qualifications and gone back to get a job or into their community, I think
is a valuable experience and is a valuable outcome.
The other thing to pick up on the point of the measure of success for regional
universities is we celebrate our regionality.
I'm not suggesting that metropolitan universities don't do this, but we take great pride in
engaging really closely and significantly and substantially with the communities
in which we live and work, and the industries who support us through internships and
work integrated learning.
In many instances we're bringing in the experts from those industries
to co-create the knowledge of our students who will go out and be employed in those industries
in the region.
[Applause] >> ANDREW VANN: So, we're getting to the end
and I just, I just want to see if anybody wants to make any closing comments.
How long, just that top one there, which I imagine might be from one of the representatives
of the private higher education providers, there's a challenge to you for your statement
about HEP and why that's only available to universities, I think.
Do you want to make any comments on it?
So the question is, does your unpaid political announcement advocating funding to support
students being left alone go so far as to advocate this funding be available to all
higher education providers, not just universities?
[Laughs] >> HELEN HUNTLY: Okay, well
Central Queensland University is a dual sector institution, so we have the delight
of being a higher education provider and a registered trading organisation.
So I would say if the policies and the framework around HEP and enabling
have quite stringent processes to be engaged and then report against.
And I guess I would say if people are willing to engage with those policies and processes
and deliver really high quality products that fit under those banners, bring it on.
>> ANDREW VANN: Thank you.
We're just about out of time and Deb's lurking in the wings.
Any final comments from any of you?
>> BRIDGET NEAVE: I'll just say in response to the question saying how
can the university contact these low SES students, I would say one thing that,
my university's really helped me with is developing a low SES student network society,
so that's involved a partnership between, staff members and students to create a
community and a network around the student experience.
So that's been really paramount, so that's, kind of, rolling out next year.
And I think that's something that all universities can really do, working with students to develop
that type of network.
>> ANDREW VANN: Thank you.
Anybody else?
Are we all done?
Are we all finished?
>> KERRI-LEE KRAUSE: I think, well we're getting the message from stage right.
>> ANDREW VANN: We're getting the breath down the neck.
[Laughter] My iPad says it's 15:18, so, uh, we'll, we'll, I think it's a good point to
break.
Can I just ask everybody to thank the Panel?
Thank you.
It's great.
[Applause] >> DEB VERHOEVEN: And thank you to Andy as
well.
[Applause]
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