(calm instrumental music)
- Hello, I'm Bob Loftur-Thun, interim Executive Director
of the Northern Virginia Resource Center
for Deaf and Hard of Hearing Persons.
We're located in Fairfax County.
We've been around since 1988, and our mission is to empower
deaf and hard of hearing individuals and their families
through education, advocacy, and community involvement.
We're producing a series of programs that we hope
will inform and educate the hearing community
about the deaf community, a very vibrant sector
of our society.
So we hope as a result of these programs,
people will understand more about the history
of the deaf community in the United States,
as well as deaf culture.
So today's program is on generational experiences
in deaf education in America.
Our guests today are Tom Dowling,
Andaleeb Alayan, and Brad Staton.
Welcome.
- Welcome.
- Thank you. - Thank you.
- I thought that maybe we could lead off,
Andaleeb, asking you a question about
what was deaf life and deaf education like
in the very beginning of the United States?
- [Interpreter] In America in the late 1700s,
early 1800s, life was more of a rural existence.
This led to deaf children living
more isolated from each other.
Many hearing parents who had deaf children
believed that deaf children couldn't be educated.
These parents didn't know much about deafness at all.
For example, they believed if they couldn't
literally hear the word of God, they couldn't be saved.
A priest would even go as far as placing their hands
on deaf children's ears trying to heal
the deafness out of them.
Obviously, it didn't work.
- So Tom, what changed that situation
for deaf people in the United States?
- [Interpreter] Yeah, it's an interesting history.
Thomas Hopkins Gallaudet was the one person
who really made a difference for people who are deaf.
At that time he had neighbors that were the Cogswell family,
and they had a child who was deaf, and her name was Alice.
She had no communication.
Pastor Thomas Hopkins Gallaudet,
he was fascinated by the child's situation
and wanted to find a way to communicate with her.
So the Cogswell family decided to help fund
Gallaudet's trip to Europe.
Gallaudet sailed to Europe and visited two schools
for the deaf, where they offered oralism.
He felt that it was too limiting and not a good fit,
and he wasn't going to get
the support he needed from them.
That's when he decided to go to France,
the Paris School for the Deaf,
where then he met Abbe de l'Epee,
who was a teacher for the deaf.
And he was also introduced, Gallaudet,
to Laurent Clerc...
another teacher for the deaf.
Gallaudet was intrigued by Laurent Clerc's
approach to teaching the deaf.
And Gallaudet proposed to Laurent Clerc to come back
to America with him to help the deaf children.
During that time together,
Clerc taught Gallaudet some signs.
After arriving in America, Clerc met Alice.
All of this led to the establishment
of the first deaf school,
The American School for the Deaf.
Deaf children from around the surrounding areas
were brought together to be educated;
and it took off from there.
- That's an interesting historical story.
And Andaleeb, when Gallaudet came over with Clerc,
how did that affect deaf education in the United States
and sign language?
- [Interpreter] ASL just took off and grew.
Many schools open for the deaf.
At the time, Abraham Lincoln signed into law
that colleges could confer or grant degrees
to deaf students, primarily Gallaudet University,
or Gallaudet College at that time.
Edward Miner Gallaudet, who was the son of Tom Hopkins
Gallaudet, was the founder of Gallaudet College in 1864.
By the end to mid-19th Century,
ASL took root in the country.
Gallaudet University was previously
Gallaudet College in 1860s, and Gallaudet University
was established in 1987.
- And then Tom, a challenge came about to ASL, right?
Where did that come from?
- [Interpreter] Yeah, at this point in American history,
there was a man named Alexander Graham Bell, or AGB.
You may know him as the inventor of the telephone.
He had a patent in 1876, prior to
the invention of the telephone.
AGB was married to a deaf woman,
and his mother was also deaf.
After observing his wife and mother's situation,
he was moved to believe that being deaf
was something to be eradicated.
He believed that deaf children could be taught
to speak better, and proposed oralism
to be taught to deaf students in deaf schools.
He opened up the first school in Boston in 1871.
Over the next five years, he ran his school.
This preceded the invention of the telephone in '76.
He became very influential and successful.
This drew many people to his beliefs and methodologies,
and it spread throughout other schools in the area.
He also believed...
That sign language should be eradicated,
and he encouraged lip reading and speaking
for deaf children in schools.
He also tried to remove deafness through eugenics.
He believed this could be achieved
by preventing deaf people from marrying each other
and breeding deaf children
and controlling the deaf population.
It's very unfortunate.
- It's hard to believe that
they could take that philosophy.
So it really did have a negative impact on sign language,
and on top of that, there was a conference going on
around that time and Brad, what was that about?
- In 1880 there was the Milan Conference for the Deaf
Educators in Italy, and they were trying to decide
whether or not to continue using sign language
in the instruction of deaf children.
So they went ahead and voted that no,
they're not going to use sign language for deaf children.
So they would use oralism,
in other words, use speaking and lip reading
to teach the deaf children.
Well, the United States and England,
they voted no, but of course, they were overruled.
And so after that, the National Association
of the Deaf, NAD, their membership increased, a lot.
Deaf people were joining NAD at that time
so they could have support,
because oralism is not what they wanted.
Gallaudet University continued to teach sign language,
but they had to include oralism and lip reading,
they had to do that.
All of the schools had to incorporate
lip reading and speaking.
A lot of the schools were closed.
They closed it because they couldn't support sign language.
And so they were forbidden to teach any sign language.
So it was a big deal, 70 years of
no use of sign language in the schools.
It was really a sad time.
- And from what I understand,
people still used it unofficially;
but if they were caught using it
they were actually punished in the schools, right?
- Yes, they were.
They actually had to wear gloves tied together
so they couldn't use the sign language.
They got their hands slapped all the time
for use of sign language.
The kids, they maintained ASL in the schools in the dorm,
because they lived at the schools for the deaf.
In the dorm they would use the sign language.
So that's how ASL continued to thrive throughout time.
But in the classroom it was forbidden.
- So, really Gallaudet University was kind of like
this educational island, if you will,
in deaf education that really helped
keep alive American Sign Language.
And starting in the 1950s and 60s,
there started to be movement or a resurgence of ASL,
and I was wondering if you'd give us
a little bit of background on that.
- Well in the 1950s there was a professor
named William Stokoe, Stokoe is his sign name,
at Gallaudet University.
He did some research and he did a lot of research
on ASL, American Sign Language,
and he really defined that ASL was a true language.
So that really promoted the use of ASL
because it was a true language
and not something that was adopted from France.
So with his help it promoted the use of ASL,
and they published the first
American Sign Language Dictionary.
To-put-to-use-of the dictionary.
So that was available to the public
to learn sign language.
And also during the 50s and 70s
they had the Women's Rights Movement
and they had the Civil Rights Movement
which really encouraged the deaf community
to push the use of ASL and use sign language.
And so slowly the barriers between not using ASL
and the use of sign language became stronger
through that time.
So then all the way into the 1980s
when there was what they called the Deaf President Now,
DPN Movement, where they were getting ready to hire
a hearing president of Gallaudet University.
Well, the students there just stood up and protested it,
because they said no, they wanted someone to represent them,
you know, a deaf president.
So they protested in 1988, they completely
shut down the campus and everything.
So finally, the board at Gallaudet University
hired a deaf president, who was a deaf professor
there at Gallaudet, I. King Jordan.
So that really, you know, blew up the ASL movement.
- Right, right, and that was a huge event
here in Washington, DC.
I was living here at that time.
It was a huge social event, and it got a lot of support
from people all across the country,
so it was one of those empowering moments
that are great to see in history.
And then in the 1970s, with the passage of the individual,
I'm sorry, Individual Disabilities Education Act,
the IDEA act, how did that impact deaf education?
- Well, what it did was, what they called
the Mainstreaming Law, it allowed the kids to,
instead of going to the school for the deaf,
they were to be mainstreamed into public schools
closer to home, because many of the deaf schools
were located somewhere else, sometimes many miles from home.
So the Mainstreaming Act allowed the people
to be educated closer to home, plus providing interpreters,
providing whatever services they need to get an education;
whereas before, they didn't have that.
And that was a big deal at that time.
- Right, right, and it really changed
deaf education in the United States.
- Yes, exactly, and then it also created
what they call total communication, which is
the use of sign language and talking at the same time,
so a lot of the professors and teachers in the school
were required to use what they call total communication.
They had to sign and talk at the same time,
so really, they were incorporating oralism
and sign language at the same time.
It was an interesting time in the 1970s,
and in the 80s, it continued,
and so that was the big thing.
Even at Gallaudet University,
they used total communication for many years.
It was required: even the deaf teachers
had to talk and sign at the same time.
- Is that still prevalent, or is that sort of a
philosophy that went the way of history?
- It kind of just dissipated throughout time.
I'm finding that Gallaudet professors
don't have to use their voices anymore;
and now in the mainstream schools, they still use
signing and total communication or they use an interpreter,
a sign language interpreter, to teach the class.
So it depends on the school; sometimes you'll see them
sign and talk at the same time,
but at Gallaudet University, they don't.
They just sign, as it should be, I think.
- Well, to me, as I'm hard of hearing,
I wear two hearing aids; and I'm typical of
hard of hearing or hearing people really didn't have
a knowledge of deaf community, deaf history, deaf education,
so hearing this is, it's very informative for me.
I thought what would be even more informative is,
since you really represent three different generations,
is just to ask you what your
educational experience was like.
Tom, since you're the senior person here,
I'll start with you first.
What was your educational experience like growing up?
- [Interpreter] Okay, well, it was one of
the most difficult experiences of my life.
I was born to hearing parents...
And they didn't know how to provide
an appropriate education.
They "seeked" help from people
in the schools in our community.
I was later enrolled...
For two years in public school.
Then, they decided to take me out
and put me in another private school
run by Catholic Charities.
That's where I was taught to lip-read
and the oralism method in the classroom.
I went there for nine years.
As Brad mentioned, if we were caught using gestures
in the classroom, I was punished.
I had to stand in the corner in the classroom like a monkey.
But you know...
But at the end, I was sent to a private high school
where I met two other deaf boys.
We became each other's support for the next four years
throughout high school.
We had no other support system from the school.
No interpreters, no note-taking, no written notes,
no help from anybody else.
At the end of high school, we were expected
to enter a vocational program.
When I took my Gallaudet entrance exam,
I didn't think I was going to get in, but to my surprise...
I passed! It was amazing.
When I got to Gallaudet, it opened
a whole new world of communication.
We were able to have dialogues in the classroom,
discussions, no more writing back and forth
on slips of paper.
It was very different than my old schooling days
back in Chicago.
- Well, that's a very interesting and illustrative story
about all the challenges that you faced,
and what an education at Gallaudet made for you.
And Brad, since you're next, could you describe
your educational experience?
- Sure; I was born hard of hearing,
or profoundly hard of hearing when I was born.
At that time, they didn't have any way of diagnosing
my hearing loss; so they thought I had a mental impairment.
They sent me to the school for the mentally disabled.
I was there for one year, and fortunately for me,
there was a new doctor that came to town,
and they tested me, and said "No, he has hearing loss."
So my parents decided immediately,
the only thing they could do was to send me to
the Virginia School for the Deaf and the Blind,
where I went for one year.
And then, at that time, the Mainstreaming Law was passed
in 1973, so they decided to send me to a program
that was established in Roanoke, my hometown,
where there was a Mainstreaming program for the deaf.
During the day, they had deaf classes,
then in the afternoon, you were sent to hearing classes.
That was a good experience for me,
because I can still be with my peers in the classroom;
and then my parents felt like I was more hearing than deaf,
so they transferred me to an elementary school
in my hometown, Salem, Virginia.
But I had no interpreter, I had no,
any kind of note-taking or anything,
so it was really a frustrating experience for me,
because being hard of hearing, I still can't hear
what's happening in the classroom.
I went all through high school, and I managed.
I think I was lucky because there were small classes.
And then I went on to a hearing college,
and I struggled in college, because there were
no interpreters, no note-takers, anything.
So I struggled through two years of college.
Well, at that time, Gallaudet University
had the protest that I mentioned earlier, in 1988.
- Deaf President Now, yeah. - And it just opened my eyes,
so I went up there for a visit,
and I could sign "Oh, this is what I need."
So I transferred to Gallaudet, and it really opened up,
like Tom, it opened up a world to me,
and I was able to sit in a classroom, get an education,
be able to discuss with other students.
It was really a good experience for me.
- That's great. And Andaleeb?
You're the youngest here, and if you could describe
your educational experience growing up?
- [Interpreter] I grew up here in Fairfax County
from elementary school through high school.
I was in the Fairfax County public school system.
I was fortunate enough to have interpreters.
I was in a deaf education program, small classes,
as well as being mainstreamed classes with interpreters.
I had an IEP that was developed by my teachers and parents.
It was in those meetings we decided
that I would be mainstreamed with interpreters.
Then when I went to Gallaudet University,
there were more people just like me
than I've experienced ever before.
- [Interpreter] I have two deaf children
that were born and raised here.
They were in an oral-and-speech program at the time,
and we talked to the social worker
about the program being offered to my children,
and I told them that they would need to
communicate in sign language at home
without interference from the school.
To this day, my children and their education
exceeds four or five times greater than my
or my wife's education level.
It's amazing to see, and I commend Fairfax County
Public Schools for the help for my two girls
and Annalieb, such as yourself.
- [Interpreter] I feel fortunate they offered FM systems
that could be connected to our hearing aids.
Not everyone used it: it was more
based on an individual need.
Also, transportation was provided, such as myself:
I lived about 25 minutes from school,
so all the deaf would be bused to one location
where the deaf education program was.
- So the educational system in the United States
has really improved quite a bit over the last 50 years,
and that's great to see.
Tom, your children were fortunate
in that you're deaf and you sign;
but at the same time, you're mentioning your parents
were hearing parents, and I think of what a lot of
hearing people don't realize is that about 90%
of deaf children, their parents are hearing.
So, in the very early formative years, in preschool,
that's very important to have signing and English,
and I know that you're instrumental in the LEAD-K movement
here in Virginia preschool education, and I was wondering
if you could tell us a little bit about that.
- [Interpreter] Yes, that's right.
Well, LEAD-K stands for
Language Equality And Acquisition for Deaf Kids.
We proposed a bill in Virginia last year,
but it failed because there was a strong movement
from another group.
We tried to emphasize that in the bill
it would offer all children from ages birth to five
the right to communicate
within sign language or English literacy, or both.
I hope when it is introduced again in the fall,
we will all have...
Your support of this bill.
- Well, I know that NVRC will be supporting it,
and I'm sure many members of the deaf community
will be supporting it, because there's
a lot of research out there that learning ASL
actually helps young children learn English, as well.
So it's reading English and English in general.
I think it's a very important movement,
I think preschool in general, preschool education
has been more and more recognized as far as its value,
and I think the LEAD-K program of preschool education
would be very, very beneficial.
So we'll definitely be doing what we can
to advocate for that.
Are there any other suggestions you might have,
based on your own experiences,
as far as current day deaf education;
or do you think things are moving along pretty well,
hopefully with the addition of LEAD-K preschool education?
Well, let me ask you this then.
How do you feel?
Tom and Brad, you have much longer experience;
and Andaleeb, as a young professional starting out
in her career, how do you feel your education
and including Andaleeb, has helped you
or helped you prepare for the work world?
Because as we know, you know,
most people in the work world are hearing.
You may come across deaf workers, hard of hearing workers;
so if you could talk a little bit about that,
what was that transition like?
Tom, I guess we'll start off with you.
- [Interpreter] Fortunately, how I was raised
and exposed to the hearing world,
having to be in an all-hearing classroom,
I had to adapt my communication to things such as
reading lips or writing notes back and forth.
When I graduated from Gallaudet,
I had to face the same reality in the hearing world.
I started my professional career
working for a government agency.
While I'm retired now, about five years after 42 years
of service in the federal government,
looking back at the people who I worked with,
I'm surprised at the number of people who learned sign.
I had the opportunity to teach them and engage with them.
It made my job a lot easier.
Sometimes, I would leave notes on the whiteboard,
and the whiteboard would be covered with notes at times.
I was fascinated with the,
and I was able to communicate better with my co-workers
than my parents, unfortunately.
- And Brad, what about you?
- For me, since I started working for the government,
Department of Defense, a lot later than Tom did;
but I found that being involved in the hearing world,
my family and everything, I was able to,
I can lip read; and I was able to,
with a lot of speech therapy, I was able to
communicate with my managers.
Plus technology has improved a lot,
so I can use telephones with an amplifier on it,
and I'm always able to get interpreters
for meetings and things that we would have,
especially big meetings.
So I felt like, that my deaf education at Gallaudet
really supported me to know what it is that I can get
in my workplace; so far, after 25 years of working
for the government, I've been doing well, I think,
and I'm able to get any kind of support to get my job done.
- That's great.
And Andaleeb, you're one year out of Gallaudet University
with a degree in accounting; and how do you feel
Gallaudet or that educational experience
prepared you for the workforce?
- [Interpreter] Really, it helped me a lot.
Having a deaf teacher teach me accounting
made everything more clear.
I was able to learn a lot, quickly.
Then I was able to bring my experience to NVRC,
which I really enjoyed.
It's been a good experience working with you, Bob,
and the both of you.
- Full disclosure: Andaleeb is
our new finance and accounting manager.
We're very pleased to have her on board.
Well, it's been fascinating listening to your histories,
and I know I found it very informative and educational,
and I hope the audience found it the same way.
And if you want any more information,
you'll see on the screen there,
www.nvrc.org, info@nvrc.org, and our telephone number.
So thank you very much for tuning in,
and hope to see you again soon.
(calm instrumental music)
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