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Courses vs Services: Which One Is Right For You | Braless on Couch | Episode 22 - Duration: 11:50.

Hey everybody and welcome to Braless on Couch.

I am Halley Gray from Evolve and Succeed and I am super stoked to see you here.

It is going to be a good episode today because I am going to talk about something that gets

talked about a lot online, but without enough clarity or data around it to help you decide

which way is the way forward.

So let's talk about that today, because that is something that is going to change your

business forever, and I wanna make sure that you're doing the right thing for your business

out of the gate.

Because this is something that a lot of people spend a lot of money and a lot of time on

trying to do without having results to actually back it up, and actually it puts your business

back a couple of years.

It'll actually stall your business and stall a lot of progress and growth if you do this

the wrong way.

So we're gonna talk about it today, and specifically we're gonna talk about how courses vs services-

which one is right for you, how to decide where you're at and which one is the way forward,

and what you should do once you figure that out.

So let's get started, but first I want to invite you to do this- Screw Feelings, Get Clients challenge.

We are getting started soon, and it is super, super, super important that you sign up right

now because what's gonna happen is we're starting so very soon and I do not want you to miss

out on this, okay?

So the link is in the description below, so go ahead and get it right now.

So first off let's talk a little bit about defining courses vs clients.

When I say clients, what I mean is you have a service based business- you're a designer,

you're a developer, you're a coach, you're a virtual assistant, you could be a tarot

reader, and you are offering a service to somebody online.

Okay?

So you could either do design work online and make their website, or you could be helping

them with their tech stuff as a tech VA, or you could be coaching them through their relationships,

their business, whatever.

Because that is what you are good at and that is what you are trying to focus on selling.

So you sell all your services through your website online, that is what I'm focusing

on, and the alternative is a course.

A course is just information delivered, whenever somebody buys it instantly, so you can go

ahead and make money that way, right?

So it could be something like a membership site.

It could be something that is like a 2 workbook course.

It could be a live pro- well, live programs are a little bit different, but courses are

basically just information that you have bundled up, and you could either release them right

away, or you can release them in a drip format, okay?

So this is something I talk about a lot, because a lot of people hear passive income, and when

you're new to the internet passive income sounds AMAZING.

It sounds so cool right?

You just stay there, and you get paid overnight and there's no risk it sounds like when it

comes to making a course and selling it.

So let me talk a little bit about my experiences- I have tried different business models when

I was first getting started.

I had a zero audience guys.

I had a tiny, tiny audience- 100 people max, which was awesome.

I knew everybody really well, and I was able to launch a lot of stuff, and I was able to

get to know them super, super closely.

BUT what I found is that when I was offering services I was able to pull in thousands and

thousands of dollars by booking people, so booking clients to work with them, and then

when I tried to launch a course at a reasonable price point, because I was new and wanted

to offer something small to test it out, I did not make enough money to support it.

Okay?

So the thing is that when I sold that, and I was like, "Okay great, I'm gonna sell this

nice $700 product.

I'm gonna offer it for every month, and then I'll just write it and I'll deliver it and

I'll be done, much like a membership description."

I was like, "Awesome!

I'm gonna make so much money!"

Uhhhhhh no I didn't.

No I didn't.

I made a few hundred dollars.

Which, considering my list size was an awesome conversion rate and totally legit, and it

was a healthy result for what I was offering, but what I found is that when it came to offering

courses with a small audience online, that shit does not work, okay?

I needed full-time income.

I needed thousands of dollars coming in every month to survive, to grow my business, to

pay my taxes, to make sure that everything was covered.

BUT, when I was offering courses, I could not even make enough money to cover my groceries.

So when you are offering- when you have a small business, or when you are starting from

scratch online, you need to make sure that you're doing the right business model for

you and for what you're trying to achieve.

If you are trying to achieve full-time income in the next couple months, you need to be

offering services, okay?

That is the only way forward.

You cannot grow a business, you cannot create a product, you cannot launch it fast enough

for you to make the same amount of money that you could with offering services.

So I want you to let that sink in.

Services are the way forward if you want to quickly move online, and move into full-time

income quickly, okay?

They are the way forward.

The reason why they are also the way forward is because they don't require as much money.

Do you know how much it costs people to launch a course?

Do you know how much money it costs them to develop a course?

It costs thousands and thousands of dollars, okay?

And that's hoping that the course is actually a legit product that they can resell.

If it's a product that you can't resell, what happens is that you just invested thousands

of dollars into something that does not work.

Whereas with a service, the max amount of investment that you need to put in is knowing

the method of launching, knowing the method of setting up your online website correctly,

and all of that that the marketing aspect- once you know the marketing aspect you can

test again and again and again and it usually comes down to the same things over and over

again, okay?

So it really does- when it comes to services online, it's a lower risk, and it's a higher

profit margin than what you're doing if you're doing courses.

Now, I love courses.

Courses are great.

They're a great way to reach people who are already a lower price point that you can help

one-on-one, because if you've been doing this for a while you're not going to be able to

lower your price points.

As you get better and better at what you do, as you grow your expertise, your brain becomes

more valuable.

So you should be raising your rates every year, you should be raising your rates every

quarter.

And by doing that it allows you to basically make sure that you're always getting paid

for the experience the results that you're going to be continually providing people and

improving on.

So that's awesome, but then there's going to be a gap underneath it where people want

to work with you, they want to have your method, they want to know what you're doing, they

wanna get the information to do it themselves because they're super motivated, and that's

where a course comes in.

So being booked out, having months of clients in advance, is the easiest way for you to

move into online- working for yourself online because it allows you to have that rapid profit,

okay?

It allows you to have that rapid gain of clients.

It allows you to have that income that takes place of that income that you're doing right

now at your day job.

BUT what happens is that that is not the end of your business journey.

That doesn't have to be.

And even if you've been online for years, that doesn't have to be like, you could be

struggling right now to get enough clients.

You could be struggling right now to be paid enough.

You could be struggling because you're working so many hours and you need to get booked out

as well, okay?

But then the next step is if you want to go with it you either keep charging more money

with services, and working with fewer clients and picking the people you want to work with

and the people you don't wanna work with, okay?

Only working with the people you actually freaking love, or you're actually believing

in their mission or their business, or you can go and start adding in courses, you can

start adding in speaking gigs where you can get paid.

You can start adding in retreats if you wanted to.

There are many different ways for you to grow your business, but the foundation needs to

be services, okay?

I'm 100% a believer in this, because having working with hundreds of designers, coaches,

virtual assistants, project managers, and seeing them come online and a lot of them

investing actually tens of thousands of dollars into courses and being like, "I was trying

to make my own course to make money, but I tried that and I didn't make any money and

now I'm even more out of pocket for that, and I'm not gonna be able to make it work.

It's actually a lot of work and I don't have an idea and I don't know how to deliver it,

and I don't know how to support it.

I'm not ready for that yet."

Which a lot of people just aren't ready for offering courses cause they need that experience

working with people.

They need that proof of results.

They need to actually get working with people and testing out their idea for a course by

working with people.

Okay?

And so what happens is you get paid basically to grow your own audience, which is another

crucial aspect of courses that most people don't talk about.

You need a thousand to ten thousand people to have a full time income with courses.

Whereas with services, you only need a hundred people guys.

You only need a small audience, and you need the ability to create smaller, closer relationships

and connections because services can thrive with a very small audience.

Courses, for a full time income, needs thousands of people on your list, okay?

Now you've heard people be like, "I've had a hundred people on my list and I made $2,000

in my course."

That's awesome, but what happened next month?

Yeah that's right.

I don't think they made $2,000 the next month.

The next month they're like, "Oh shit, now I don't have enough money to pay for things.

Like I thought I would keep rolling on that sweet Evergreen course money."

But you don't.

You have to start investing thousands of dollars into traffic generation.

You have to invest thousands of dollars in improving, revamping, launching, and making

it actually generate sales.

So what happens is when you have a client, you work with them at 3 months at a time,

or 12 months at a time, you've got a consistent income coming in.

You're able to actually thrive and make sure that you're getting paid every month, and

that's the crucial thing that a lot of people don't think about, is that when it comes to

courses vs services, services are where you should start, okay?

That's where you should get your specialty.

That's where you should get your expertise.

That's where you should get your freaking testimonials and the results for your clients.

That's where you should begin, and that's the basis of all success of online businesses

because when you're offering services, those skills you're learning to sell your services

online, to launch them online, are gonna be the same skills that you use to apply for

launching your courses online.

That's what I did- I took all of my background is in marketing, and I was testing all of

my different launching techniques, I was testing content.

I was testing ideas.

I offered multiple different services over the course of a few years that I was working

with people and I finally figured out being booked out is what people wanted.

Okay?

And so I said, "Okay great, I'm gonna take this.

I'm gonna presell it as a course."

And so I did and I had amazing testimonials to back it up, I had results, I knew what

I was gonna offer.

I had confidence in what I was gonna do.

I just needed to test to see if people wanted it at that price point, and I offered it.

And I presold it, and I presold it in one webinar guys.

I was able to generate $14,000 in sales which is fucking awesome.

So I couldn't have done that though right out of the bat.

I wouldn't have known what to offer.

I wouldn't have known what to say about it.

I wouldn't have had amazing testimonials.

I would have not had the sales that I had the first time having tested it for so many

years because I didn't have the experience that I needed to offer that thing.

But after working with clients, after testing it myself, after tweeking it, and approving

it, and evolving it, and refining it, and engineering it so that it got other people

results, I was able to presell it so that other people could buy it and it got them

results.

Okay?

So being booked out is not just the beginning of your journey, but it is the foundation

that you need for a successful business online because if you can't sell a service, you can

no fucking way sell a course, okay?

So sell services, and if you can sell services successfully then you can sell courses, and

that's really really crucial.

So I want you to go ahead and apply this to your own business because I want you to succeed.

I don't want you to spend months, you know, messing around with courses when courses are

gonna get you stuck, okay?

If you have a massive audience somehow and you've come in with like thousands and thousands

of followers and subscribers, go for it dude.

That's awesome, but for you to be able to generate full time income from scratch or

if you've been doing this for a few years and you still want to just generate full time

income, you need to be booked out.

Alright?

So Be Booked Out is starting soon but what you should do is go join our Screw Feelings,

Get Clients challenge.

This is our 5 day challenge that's starting soon.

The link is in the description.

Go and join because this is going to get you some sweet sweet clients in advance.

Alright?

So basically we're going to make sure that we help you - The Screw Feelings, Get Clients

is basically about making sure that you're always focusing on stuff that is effective

and strategic.

The only way you can do that is by not listening to your feelings, and focusing on your strategies

and your tactics that actually work.

So go and join the challenge now, and keep an eye out for Be Booked Out, because it is

starting soon and I want you to succeed.

So talk to you soon guys.

Thanks for being here and this is Braless on Couch with Halley Gray from Evolve and

Succeed.

For more infomation >> Courses vs Services: Which One Is Right For You | Braless on Couch | Episode 22 - Duration: 11:50.

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S3 E21 Bright Heart Birth Services/ Recording Artist and Fashion Designer Christine Storm - Duration: 28:31.

For more infomation >> S3 E21 Bright Heart Birth Services/ Recording Artist and Fashion Designer Christine Storm - Duration: 28:31.

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Division of Children and Family Services' GEM Award presentation - Duration: 0:53.

(Applause) It was because you gave me the chance.

I don't know what to say.

Oh, there's still more. (laughter)

And they wanted me to make sure that you got a copy of the GEM award.

(applause)

I appreciate this, I really do.

It just lets me know that my work is not in vain.

That people really do...and that I'm helping people and somebody else sees it.

That's all I want, I just want to help my families, that's all.

There's just too much going on in this world...we just help them one at a time.

I appreciate this.

Mary! (laughter)

For more infomation >> Division of Children and Family Services' GEM Award presentation - Duration: 0:53.

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Chapter 7 Part 2 - HIT241 E/M Services Updated 2017 - Duration: 18:09.

OK, let's continue with Chapter 7 Part 2

We are going to go through the review questions at

the end of the chapter as well as some

other topics that I would like to discuss

and that will be on the exam for this

chapter. (Chapter 7 Review) #2-A new patient was seen

in the physician's office for abdominal

pain.The physician performs a detailed

history and comprehensive exam, medical

decision making is of moderate

complexity. I've answer those questions

that I advised you in the first part of

this podcast, Part 1, that you would ask

as a coder. It is an Office (visit) or other

outpatient service. The fact that it is

initial or subsequent or critical care

does not apply in this case. It takes

place in the physician's office and it is

a new patient, which is what the

documentation tells us. So having

answered those questions, we look up in

our index the main term "evaluation and

management", sub term "Office and other

outpatient" and we get code range of 99201-99215

and when we go

to those codes and read through the

descriptors, we want to find the code

that properly reflects a detailed

history, comprehensive exam and moderate

complexity medical decision making. I

recommend looking at the tables there in

the front of the CPT code book.

There's one for Office and other

outpatient services for a new patient.

Look for those and you see that a new

patient has to have all three key

elements and that means when you look at

that table, you cannot choose 99204

because that would require a

comprehensive history, a comprehensive

exam and moderate medical decision

making. So we cannot choose 99204 so we

drop down a level to 99203 and that

allows us to capture that detailed

history. It was not comprehensive,

so we had to drop down to the 99203

code for new patient. (Chapter 7 Review) #4, New patient again, physician's

office, expanded problem focused history,

a detailed exam and low complexity

medical decision making. Evaluation and

management is the main term, Office and

other outpatient services is the subterm,

the same code range 99201-99215

I would look again at

the E/M tables near the front of CPT

code book under Office or other

outpatient services, for the new patient.

Again, it needs all three elements so we

cannot choose 99203 because our

history is not advanced enough. We would

drop down to level 99202. (Chapter 7 Review) #6

A physician provides E/M services for

a patient in acute hysteria admitted to the

ED (Emergency Department). So the ED is now your place of

service and you're going to be looking

at codes that reflect that. "Evaluation

and management" is the main term with

"Emergency department" as your sub term,

giving you a different code range. Now

you're in 99281 through 99288. Look at

the tables again and the front of cpt

code book under Emergency Department and

you see that it doesn't matter if you

are a new or an established patient, you have

to have all three key elements to assign

a code. Code 99281 is problem focused

history, problem focused exam and

straightforward medical decision making.

(Chapter 7 Review) #8 We're back in the

physician's office, with an established

patient. This is a problem focused

history, expanded problem focused exam,

and low complexity medical decision

making. Go back to the tables, looking at

"Established" patient this time. Established patient,

under the Office or other outpatient

services with an established patient, you

only have to have two of the three

required components to assign a code. We

have two of the required components to assign

99213 so that's the code that

we select.

(Chapter 7 Review) #10. You have a patient being

seen in the doctor's office, again a new

patient. Go back to the same tables. You

can either use the index or the tables.

To me, the tables are the most helpful. You

do not have the comprehensive exam needed

to assign 99204 so we must drop down a

level to 99203. There may be other logic that

you may read about or understand to help

you select the right code but to me when

I see that I have two of three elements to

assign a certain code but I don't have

three (elements), I just drop down a level to the

next lower level and that gives me the

right answer. That may not make sense to

some of you and there may be other ways of

looking at that logic. That seems to work

for me. (Chapter 7 Review) #12 You've got an

established patient, back in the doctor's

office, much more information given in

the documentation with a detailed

history, expanded problem focused exam,

and moderate complexity decision making.

Go back to our tables for an established

patient. You have two of the three

required components and we have two of the 3 (components) to

assign 99214. We have detailed

history and medical decision making of

moderate complexity.

Here's an example not in the textbook.

It's important for you to know this and it

will be on an exam. A patient diagnosed

with hypertension visits her

physician's office on a monthly basis.

The nurse conducted the blood pressure

check under the physician's supervision.

Code the office visit. What we do not

have is the physician seeing the patient.

But we do have a situation where someone,

another qualified healthcare provider, is

providing a service under the physician's

supervision. There's only one code and

in the Office visit range of codes that

fits that description and that is 99211.

It is assigned for a visit that does

not or may not require the presence of a

physician. It is a very low level code and probably

has a low level reimbursement tied to it.

I'm not sure. But it is often a test

question and one that you should be

familiar with. Another example, not in the

textbook, is Nursing Facility Care. You

notice that we have a Skilled Nursing

Home Visit, date of service is 1-9-14 and the

last date of treatment was 12-22-13. The

fact that the last date of treatment is

listed tells us that this is not an initial

visit; this is a subsequent visit. So we look

at the subsequent visits in the nursing

facility. The documentation tells us

it's a detailed interval history,

comprehensive exam and (moderate complexity) medical decision

making. There is a subsequent nursing

facility care table that we can use.

It requires two of three components and we

have those: detailed interval history and

moderate complexity medical decision

making. It takes us to 99309. Here's another

example, not in the textbook, and one

that we often see on exams. Case

management services for anticoagulation

management. I have some history here

for this so you could understand why a

patient might be receiving warfarin. The

drug is called warfarin or coumadin and

either one, it's

the same drug, either

name and it is an anticoagulant that keeps

the blood from being too

thick, meaning clotting too easily. When a

patient has a valve replaced, in this

case, our patient is having an aortic valve

replaced, the consistency of the patient's

blood has to be monitored. You'll

hear someone refer to the blood being

"too thin" or "too thick". "Too thin" means the

patient is bleeding too easily and "too thick" means

the patient's blood is clotting too

easily. So there's a management there of

that level to be sure that the patient is

getting the correct amount of the

anticoagulant. The test that's conducted is

called an INR or a blood coumadin test

because the physician is looking at

those values for the INR to determine

and adjust the patient's Coumadin

medication. The results are evaluated by

the physician, and those needing (it adjusted) is adjusted.

So in this case Mr. Nicholson is seen in

the physician's office for

anticoagulation management since his

aortic valve was replaced. What

CPT code would the physician

bill for the monitoring and management

of the warfarin (Coumadin) therapy for the initial

90 days of therapy? When you look in the

Index, I do not find this code so it's

important for you (if you find

it let me know so I can adjust my slides)

but I could not find it. I instead went

to the E/M chapter, looked in the Table

of Contents because I know it's there.

I found the case management services and

then found those codes for

anticoagulation management. You see that

99363 is for the initial 90 days of

therapy with a minimum of eight INR

measurements and in 99364 is for each

subsequent 90 day period with a minimum

of three INR measurements. There are

guidelines just above these codes in the

CPT code book that tell you exactly how

you would assign these codes.

Another example, not in the textbook, but

one that you will see on exams is

prevention. Preventive Medicine Services.

The case we've been given is an established

patient, 55 years old, was seen for his

annual physical. He has significant pain,

soreness, redness and heat in his right

extremity. The condition requires the

physician to ask additional questions in

his history, do additional examinations

and evaluate through medical decision

making if this patient has phlebitis,

which is like an inflammation of a

vein in his extremity. In a case like

this, both the preventive service code

and the problem oriented service code

are going to be reported.There are

guidelines just in front of these codes

in preventive medicine that tell you

when an abnormality is discovered during a

preventive medicine session, the

appropriate Office Visit code should also

be reported if the condition proves

significant enough to require additional

work up. It did in our scenario.

Modifier -25 is added to the Office Visit

code to indicate that the same physician

provided a significant and separate E&M

service on the same date as a preventive

medicine service. So you have your

preventive medicine service code first,

99396, which is selected based on the

patient's age. Our patient's 55 and that

takes us to 99396 code. Then we know

we're going to use an E/M service code. I

select a problem focused because it's

really all the documentation tells us and

that would take us to 99212 and I

added a modifier -25 to indicate to

the payer, the insurance company, that the

same doctor provided these two services

to the same patient during the same

visit. If you don't add that modifier, the

doctor is not going to get paid for one of

those. The insurance company has software

that's going to pick up on that the fact

that you're billing two E/M codes for the

same date of service

so that -25 modifier alerts the insurance

company this is a different situation.

This modifier indicates that this

physician did indeed provide two services

to the same patient, the same date and

the same episode of care. Let us talk for

a bit about Critical Care services. This

category involves the care of critically

ill patients and a medical emergency

that requires the constant attention of

the physician. The constant attention does

not have to be continuous on a given

date. In other words, he can be in constant

attendance for a four-hour period, walk

away, do something else, come back four

hours later, come back for another two

hours to be in constant attendance with

this patient. So time documentation is so

so important when we're using critical

care codes. The types of emergencies that

might require this kind of service would

be a cardiac arrest, a patient in shock,

bleeding, respiratory failure or severe

post-operative complications. There is a

coding tip in your CPT code book that you

should always be looking for. They're

so helpful and they outline which

services are included in these critical

care service codes. For example, pulse

oximetry where the patient has a little

thing on his finger that's going to

indicate his oxygen level. That's one

thing that would be covered under

critical care services so that you are

billing appropriately. You need to know

for sure what is coming with that code.

If you have services being provided that

are not covered under that code, then

you would want to be coding for those.

You always want to read those coding

tips. If your patient is a neonatal or a

pediatric patient, those are different

codes so be sure that you make a mark

somehow in your code book to know these

are adult codes and these are the

babies, the neonatals and the pediatric

or the patients younger than 24

months. Time is a key factor when you're

selecting a critical care code so you

will always be watching for that

documentation.

Code 99291 is the first 30 minutes

through 74 minutes on a given date.

That's reported only once per date. If

you have additional time after that

first 74 minutes, that would be code 99292

for each additional 30 minutes of

care. So depending on your scenario, you

might have 99292 reported several times

to account for each 30-minute period.

Critical care of less than 30 minutes is

reported with an E&M code. For example, if

it's an inpatient, you'd probably be

coding under a subsequent Hospital

Inpatient services category. Read the

guidelines found just in front of the

critical care services codes. These

address ambulance transport, those doctors

who are in attendance with the people

caring for the patient while the patient

is being transported. As I said earlier,

time spent with the patient is recorded in the

patient's record. Any time spent in

activities that occur outside the unit,

off the floor or elsewhere in the

hospital may not be reported (as) critical

care because in those cases, the

physician is not immediately available

to the patient. Here's an example, not in the

textbook, Critical Care Services, you will

see this on exams. The first hour of

critical care of a 65 year old male with

septic shock following relief of ureteral

obstruction caused by a stone. You

see when you go to the Evaluation and

management as your main term, critical care

is your subterm, takes you to that range

of code either 99291 or 99292. The

selection of the code depends on the

amount of time that's documented in the

patient's record. This documentation

tells us the first hour, which is the

first 60 minutes so that's going to fall

within the range of thirty to seventy

four minutes, which takes us to code 99291.

Same situation, but notice that after the

first hour, the physician left the nursing

floor and went to his office where he

telephoned the patient's family

physician. Can the physician bill

critical care service for the time he

spent talking to the family physician in

the office. The answer is he cannot.

He cannot bill critical care because when

he was talking to the family doctor in

his office, he was not available to the

patient and the guidelines tell us that

time spent in activities that occur

outside of the unit or off the floor may

not be reported at critical care since

the individual is not immediately

available to the patient. Please please

pay attention to these last few slides.

You will see these on the exam and I

want to be sure that you have read about

them in your textbook and in the CPT

code book and be familiar with them. Any

questions related to the Chapter 7 Part 2

Review, please post them in

discussion board and I will answer them.

I hope you have a good day.

For more infomation >> Chapter 7 Part 2 - HIT241 E/M Services Updated 2017 - Duration: 18:09.

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Chapter 6 - HIT241 Pathology and Laboratory Services Updated 2017 - Duration: 12:35.

Today we're going to work on Chapter 6

Pathology and Laboratory

in the CPT code book. As with many

of our CPT chapters, you will use the

Index when you're looking up codes. You

can either look up the specific name of

the test, such as a urinalysis, the

evocative suppression test, fertility

test, for examples; specific substance or

specimen or sample that you are

measuring like glucose or CPK, which is

an enzyme, cyanide; your specimen would be from the bone marrow,

from the nasal smear or

you can look up the specific method you

used such as culture, fine needle

aspiration and microbiology. So different

ways that you can find the CPT codes.

It's important when you're looking at labs

that you also look at billing

processes. In hospital billing, the

chargemaster assigns those codes and

charges automatically for any procedure

that you have done. It's important you

know what they are and how to assign

codes but in a hospital, no one is going

to sit there and code a lab. It is going

to be in the software that the hospital is

using. In physician billing, the coder has

to determine if the physician performs

a complete procedure or only a

component of it. If you look at the

components of a procedure, someone has to

write the order, someone has to obtain

the specimen, handle the specimen, perform

the actual test, and analyze and

interpret the results. Depending upon

how the facility is handling labs, one or

several people could be involved in this

process. In addition there are payer

guidelines that have to be followed for

reimbursement.The insurance

company might say they will pay for the

lab for this, this and this (usually, diagnoses) but not for this,

so there's definitely always payer

guidelines that have to be considered

anytime you're looking at reimbursement

of lab and pathology.

As you are reading these code descriptions, you will find

quantitative and qualitative studies as

part of the description. A qualitative

screening is when you're just detecting

the presence of something an analyte,

constituent or condition and a

quantitative study is when you are

finding out how much of that analyte is

in a specimen. So qualitative is the

"presence of"; quantitative is "how much".

There are certain modifiers that you

will use when you are coding in the

pathology and lab section. They are

listed here as well as in your textbook

as well as on the inside cover of your

CPT code book. You see I have in the

far column on the right hand side who

would be using those codes. For example,

modifiers 22, 26 and 32- the first

three- would be reported by the physician

but modifier 52 for reduced

services could be reported by the

physician or the hospital and if you're

looking at the modifiers on the inside

cover of your CPT code book the far left

column is for modifiers for the

physician. I have "MD" written in big

letters at the top of that column in my

book. The column of modifiers on the

right hand side of the inside cover of your

CPT code book, those are modifiers that are

used for the hospital. As you continue

down this table, you see modifier 53 is used

by the physician, but (modifier) 59 can be used by

the physician or the hospital. Modifier 90 is used

by the physician but (modifier) 91 can be used by

the physician and the hospital.

Modifier 92, alternative lab platform would be used

by the physician. I've not used modifier

92 so I'm not really clear about when

that would be used but for testing

purposes, it is always important that you

know what your modifiers are.

Remember when you were sitting for a

coding exam, you have your code books in

front of you. if you're sitting for a CCS,

CCA, CPC, different coding exams. For the

RHIT exam, you do not have your code book

sitting in front of you. What they have

done is reproduce the answer selections

as though you are looking at your

codebook. We will try to look at some

examples of that through the semester.

Laboratories are also indexed by the organ or

the disease that they are directed toward.

These are performed more commonly for

specific diseases like hepatitis or

arthritis or specific organs like the

thyroid function or the hepatic function.

The hepatic is your liver function. All the

tests listed in a panel must be

performed for that code to be reported

and if additional tests are performed that

are not part of that panel, those codes

must be reported. When some but not

all of the tests in a panel are not

performed, the individual CPT codes

should be reported. If you want to

look for a list of the panels that are

indexed you would look under the main

term "Organs". Here's an example of an

incomplete panel. This is not in your

textbook. A physician orders part of a

hepatic function panel. The tests

that he had ordered are serum albumin, a

total bilirubin, a direct bilirubin, SGPT,

and SGOT. What is the correct CPT code

assignment?

If the entire panel were done, you would

look under "Blood test, panels. hepatic

function" and 80076 but because we know that

the physician only ordered part of the

hepatic function panel, you would code

those individual tests. I found them by

looking at "Pathology and lab" as my main

term, chemistry and then the individual

tests. The albumin, total bilirubin, direct

bilirubin. SGPT and SGOT. I suggest if

you don't know what those (acronyms) stand for, that

somewhere in your code book, you would

write what that acronym stands for.

A drug assay can be

therapeutic drug assay, a drug assay that

is presumptive or definitive, the

chemistry and your codes that you assign

are based on the purpose and type of

patient results obtained.

Evocative/suppression testing is when the

physician determines a baseline, then

give an agent and then notes what that

effect had on the body. The description

for each panel identifies the type of

test included in that panel and the

number of times a specific test must be

performed. For example, in dexamethasone

suppression within 48 hours this panel

will include measurement of free cortisol

in the urine, twice; measurement of

cortisol, twice; and the volume measurement

for timed collection, twice. So it's very

detailed as to what has to happen in

order for that test to be completed.

Surgical pathology is the unit of

service known as the "specimen" that is

taken during surgery and submitted for

individual and separate attention. The

surgical pathology codes are

differentiated by six levels and when

two or more specimens are obtained on one

patient, separate codes identifying the

appropriate level for each, should be

reported. So you may see a code reported

twice, if two different specimens were

submitted. For codes 88300 through 88309

include the acquisition of the

specimen, the examination and the

reporting of the specimen. Here's an example of a

surgical pathology that's not in the

textbook, "gross and microscopic

examination of a kidney biopsy". You look

under "Pathology and lab, surgical pathology,

Gross and Micro exam" and you get a range (of codes)

there and when you go and look at that

range, you find the specimen that you're

looking at within several options under

each of those codes. A kidney biopsy is

found under Level 4 CPT code 88305.

Just for a note, the gross examination is

when you are looking at the specimen

without the aid of a microscope and with a

microscopic exam, you are using the

scope. Look at your first question in the

review, #2, Therapeutic drug

testing for lithium. You would use

"therapeutic drug assay" as your main term,

"lithium" as your sub term, giving you an

80178. #4 is a confirmatory

test for HTLV-II antibody and your main

term is "antibody". HTLV-II is your sub

term. #6- the gross and

microscopic autopsy including the brain

for 72 year old male. When you look under

"Autopsy, gross and micro exam" it gives

you a range of codes. Code 88025

includes the brain as part of the

description. As with all of our CPT codes,

you're always going to be reading all

the descriptions found within that range

to help you determine the best code.

#8 is an HAI test.

You see here how you would find that

code. HAI is hemagglutination inhibition test.

#10 -serum nickel testing to

detect potential toxic exposure.

"Pathology and lab" would be your main term, then

Chemistry, nickel or you could just look

up "nickel" and also find the same code.

#12-An antibody test for Herpes simplex type I, looking

under the main term "herpes simplex",

antibody and you look at this range of

codes, read your code description and

86695 identifies herpes simplex type 1.

#14- Automated urinalysis by

dipstick, without microscopy. There's your

code right there. Urinalysis is your

main term, automated is your sub term.

When you look at these two codes, one is

without microscopy;one is with

microscopy. We select the code

"without" microscopy 81003.

Here's an example not in the CPT

textbook. There's a good chance you're

going to see this on an exam. A consultation

was written for Dr. Sperry, Clinical

Pathologist, to address test results and

imaging studies to assist Dr. Henry,

attending physician with a difficult

diagnostic problem. Dr. Sperry completed

a review of the patient's history and

medical records and submitted his

consultation report to the attending

physician. Your main term would either be

under "Pathology and lab, clinical

consultation" or under "Consultation" as

your main term, clinical pathology. When

you read these code descriptions, you

find 80502 is when the (consulting) physician,

consulting physician has completed a

review of a patient's history and

medical records. That's all I have for pathology

and lab. If there are any questions about this

chapter, please post them in the

discussion board in our course and I

will try to answer.

I hope you have a good day.

For more infomation >> Chapter 6 - HIT241 Pathology and Laboratory Services Updated 2017 - Duration: 12:35.

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Chapter 7 Part 1 - HIT241 E/M Services Updated 2017 - Duration: 18:16.

Today we're going to begin looking at

Chapter 7 which are the Evaluation and

Management Services codes. There's quite

a bit to cover so there are two podcasts,

Parts 1 and 2. As with other

chapters, I won't be covering all of the

codes or all of the guidelines within

this chapter but you are expected to read

them as well as work the exercises that

apply these codes. For the format of the

E/M codes, they begin with 99. Why it is

they are always in the front of the CPT

code book, I cannot explain nor can I

explain why with all the different

curricula I looked at, E&M codes are

never covered first when teaching CPT.

They are unique. They're designed to

capture the physician's time and/or

expertise when he or she is

performing their jobs as doctors. The

codes are differentiated by place (the

physician office, nursing facility, the

Emergency Department). They are also

differentiated by the type of service as

an "initial" or is it "subsequent", the

extent or the level of service you will

see codes broken out by "problem-focused

history and/or examination", "expanded

problem focused", "detailed" and

"comprehensive" for both the history and

examination. You'll see the medical

decision making or the patient's, the

severity of the patient's condition come

into play. Some codes include the amount

of time the physician spends with the

patient or spends doing certain service

or performing a certain procedure. There

are 1995 and 1997 E/M Service

guidelines. There are PDFs of both of

them on the Content page in your D2L

course. The physicians can decide by their

practice which one they want to use. You

cannot mix and match. You either have to go

by '95 or '97 guidelines.

I find most physicians go by '95 (Guidelines) but

they really they don't have to. They can

easily go by '97. This is a reminder

when you are selecting E&M codes, you are

coding for the physician. If you are

a hospital coder, you're not going to

be using E/M codes. They are just to

capture the physician's time and

expertise. A coder should answer the

following questions: What type of service

did the patient receive? Was the encounter

an initial or subsequent episode of

care? Did the patient receive a

critical care service? These will be

defined a little bit further as we move

forward. Where was the service provided,

the physician's office or clinic, a

hospital inpatient or outpatient

department, the observation unit, the

emergency department, a nursing facility

or rehab unit? Was the recipient a new

patient or one of the physician's

established patients? These, all these

questions, the answers to these questions,

help you select the correct code. When

you start reading code descriptions, they

will be covering these various elements.

The first thing we are going to look at is:

Is the patient "new" or "established"? The key

number to remember here is "three years."

I won't read the entire definition but

basically, if you've not been seen in

that practice for three years, by anyone

in the practice, any specialty in the

practice, you are considered a "new"

patient. If you have been seen within

the last three years, by the same

physician, you're an "established" patient.

Now it is possible on a given billing date

(for a patient) to be a "new" and an "established" patient

if the physician you're seeing is for the

first time. Here's an example of that.

Here's an example. Mr. Stevens was seen

last week by his family doctor Dr.

Groves and is seen for the first time

today of a neurologist, Dr. Newman. Dr.

Groves and Dr. Newman are in the same

multi-specialty practice.

When the bill was processed last week

for the visit with Dr. Groves, Mr.

Stevens was considered an established patient

because he had been seen within the last

three years. He was seen today by Dr.

Newman, a neurologist within the same

multi-specialty practice but for the

first time. For the purposes of billing

today's visit, Mr. Stevens is considered

a new patient of Dr. Newman's. You

really have to look at the individual

scenarios and cases as far as when a

patient was seen. You also have to watch

the date when you're looking at test

items to select an appropriate status,

new or established. You really have to look

at those dates and this would not be

uncommon in any testing situation,

whether it was in this course, for the

RHIT or for one of the coding

specialties. This is an office visit. The

date of service is 1-3-14 and the last

date of treatment was 2-12-11. You

see in my explanation in purple (boldface) if the

patient is seen any time before 2-12-14

(and I got that date by adding three

years to the last date of treatment), the

patient is still an established patient.

By definition, within three years, is an

established patient so when this office

visit is billed, it it would be as an

established patient. It's a similar case

but you see the date of service is 2-23-14

and the last day of treatment was 2-12-11.

If you add three years, you're going

to get 2-12-14. This patient was not

seen until 2-23-14, which is later than 2-12 14.

Therefore, she would be billed as a new

patient for this date of service. You

have to watch the dates to determine if

a patient is new or established.

Concurrent care and transfer of care are

two different things. Concurrent care

is when one or more physicians is

seeing the same patient on the same day.

Depending on the insurance, some health plans

limit reimbursement to one physician per

day unless the physicians have different

specialties and the services of more than

one are medically necessary. If that is

the case, the physicians involved in the

concurrent care episode must identify

which ICD10 code justifies the medical

necessity of that patient seeing that

specialist. Assigning the same ICD-10-CM

code could result in one of those physicians

being denied payment, usually the one who

submitted the claim last. So let's look at

an example that makes that real . Patient is

admitted to the hospital complaining of

unstable angina and uncontrolled type 2

diabetes mellitus. Dr. Smith, Cardiology

Service is the attending physician and

treats the patient's angina. Dr. Reynolds,

Endocrinology Service was consulted to

manage the patient's diabetes. The

diagnosis codes that were assigned to

this chart are I20.0 for intermediate

coronary syndrome and E11.65 for the

diabetes mellitus, uncontrolled. Dr. Smith

will report the I20.0 and the

appropriate E/M level of service

code from the Hospital Inpatient

Services category in this chapter. Dr.

Reynolds would report the E11.65 code

and the appropriate E/M level of

service code from the Hospital Inpatient

Services category. If both doctors tried

to go with the same diagnosis code, one

of them would be denied, probably the one

who submitted his claim last.

As a reminder, (there are two) types of coders-

there's facility coders where you're

going to be actually coding for the

hospital, ambulatory care center,

long-term care center, hospice, etc. and a

pro-fee or the professional fee coders.

These are the coders who select codes for

physicians or other qualified healthcare

providers. E/M codes are designed to

account both for the physician's time and

the professional expertise. For the most part,

a coder does not select the E/M codes.

These codes are selected by the physician,

either on paper or electronically as he

or she knows the level of decision making

and the severity of the patient's

condition. If software is capturing the

physician services like the E/M codes in

these settings, the coder will then code

the procedure that the physician is

performing. When a covered service

exists in the coding and billing software, it

is known as being "hard coded". That means

a code is automatically selected and

cannot be changed except by the person

in charge of the chargemaster or the

billing software.

So if that's the case, you may be asking yourself, why

do I have to learn E/M coding if it's

done for me on the chargemaster.

What I have listed here are all the exams

that you may be looking at in your

future that include coding on them.

AHIMA offers all of the exams there on

the left and AAPC which is a

professional coders' organization

offers those on the right. The RHIT exam, for

which you are eligible to sit once

you've graduated from this program, is

not a coding credential but there are

coding questions on that exam. All

the other exams that are listed are

coding exams leading to coding

credentials. So that is why you have to

learn all about E&M coding. What I've done

here I've answered some of the questions

in your textbook using the tables that

are indicated in the instructions. In

purple (boldface type) I have highlighted those parts of

the scenario that are applicable in this

situation. The chief complaint is also

abbreviated "CC". Do not get that confused

with the ICD-10 coding "CC" which means

"comorbidity and complication". That

affects the DRG assignment that is (covered) in

the coding course, the ICD 10 CM coding

course. It's important for you to

recognize that "CC" is a common acronym

and depending on the context in which

you see it, will determine what it means.

When you are looking at a History and

Physical and you see "CC" that means

chief complaint, what is the main reason

the patient is being seen.

What I've done here is I've taken the

different elements of the HPI (the

location, the quality, the modifying

factors, the duration, the context,

associated signs and symptoms, the

severity and the timing. You see that

in the documentation the physician

addressed the majority of those, so the

question was for the student to assign

the level of HPI and when you look at

the definitions there on Table 7.3,

Detailed: four or more HPI elements were

addressed .I see seven here in my

chart. So that's the logic behind how the

"detailed" level was captured. Four or more

HPI elements were addressed in the

physician documentation. The next example

is Exercise 7.2 #2, we're using

Table 7.4 in CPT textbook and I've got

the scenario where the physician has

dictated all this information about his

examination. Then I went through the

different components of the examination,

both by body areas and by organ systems

and checked them off. By definition,

this would be a detailed level where 6 organ

systems were examined but I do want you

to read the small print that's under the

table there (7.4). I did not reproduce

it in the slide but it basically says

that it depends on how your

setting or your institution or your

physician practice is telling you to

code. Sometimes they would say between

two and five or two and six organ system

is going to be this and more than that's

going to be "comprehensive" so it really

depends on where you're working, how this

would be assigned. What I'm trying to do

in these slides is just go through the

logic of how you would arrive at that

detailed setting, that detailed level when

you're selecting a code . All I'm trying

to get you to look at is that the

physician is addressing several elements

within the examination when he or she

completes that part

of the history and physical examination.

Exercise 7.3 #2 is looking at

the level of decision-making and you're

using the logic on Figure 7.1 in your

textbook. I've reproduced a table

here or I would come up with for this

particular scenario, low complexity level

of decision making. All this particular

exercise is asking you to do is address

the level of decision making so what the

authors of the textbook have done is

separate out the elements of the HPI, the

elements of the exam and now the element

level of decision making so that the

student sees that there's different

areas that are covered in each of those

levels. Exercise 7.5 Evaluation and

Management. There are two true/false

statements. The first one, the AMA and the

CMS developed documentation guidelines

for use with the CPT code book. That is

true. The review of systems is a

chronological description of the

development of symptoms. That is false.

Review of symptoms is what's going on

today, right now, while I, the physician, am

examining you. Exercise 7.5 Evaluation

and Management #6 instructs the

students who use the 1995 E/M guidelines

to determine if this documentation of

past family and/or social history meets

a definition of "pertinent" or "complete".

Both the 1995 and the 1997 guidelines

are available to you on the Content page

in this week in the D2L course. The

instructions are to use the 1995 E/M

guidelines and you are specifically

looking at the definition of "pertinent"

and "complete" PFSH.

This is a screenshot of those guidelines

where this defines what it means. PFSH is a

review of three areas: past history,

family history, and social history. By

definition, the "pertinent" is a review of

the history area directly related to the

problem identified. I scroll down a

little bit in that document and the

"complete" PFSH is review of two or all

three of those history areas. Looking

back, I selected the answer as pertinent.

The physician's documentation talks about

the past history, doesn't really go into

a family history nor a social history.

Exercise 7.5 Evaluation and Management

#8. The student is again

instructed to use the 1995 E/M

guidelines and determine if this HPI is

brief or extended. Here's a screenshot of

the 1995 definition of HPI where you

have these elements that must be

addressed and by definition, the brief

HPI is 1-3 elements and

extended its 4 or more elements of the

HPI. So I went to the correct answer as

extended because four elements were

reviewed and I give those four elements

here in purple (boldface font).

Evaluation and management #10. The

student is instructed to identify the

body system explored in the review of

systems. I have in purple (boldface type) the chest pain,

the palpitations and the shortness of breath.

I think with the respiratory and

cardiovascular (body systems). If you have any questions about

this first Part 1 of Chapter 7, please

post them in the discussion board and I

will do my best to answer them. Please

post along with your question the path

that you use to try and find your code.

Thank you so much and have a good evening.

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